hi Jim
your response to my post about inserts has kinda aroused my interest
so i went and read the probox lockbox debate
very interesting read
anyway
apparently im no less guilty then you at making contradictory statements and unsubstaniated claims
a few things you said in that thread particularly stood out
the first is
Quote:
In regards to ease of installation. Bing/Jacobs hit the nail on the head regarding leakage over time. This will doom any system. And with the recent EPS explosion, I find it nothing short of hilarious that FCS has come out with high density foam inserts to be installed prior to installing the plugs to avoid meltdowns due to overheating resin and/or lack of foam strength, and people will do 2 installs (foam inserts then the actual plugs) to avoid using something more designed to eliminate this problem. Lol. Adds a day to the glassjob as well
i dont see why this is hilarious
if monkeyshines board had fcs plugs with inserts
his board wouldnt be full of water now
and i dont see how five minutes with a router and some glue to add inserts, adds a day to a glass job
maybe if they are untrained or just incompetent
Quote:
Polyester resin does not work well in large accumulations. Anyone that knows the first thing about resin knows this. Epoxy resin is even worse. With large amounts accumulated overheating is almost gauranteed. Unless you slow the resin way down (most people won’t) which completely cancels out the easy/fast install thing. If you don’t believe this then spend some more time building boards then you will see it. There’s a reason a laminator uses a squeegee instead of a brush, and it’s not because he likes extra work. It’s because a floated lamination is heavy…and WEAKER! Why are Surftech boards more ding resistent? Built with epoxy resin you say? Sorry but that’s wrong. It’s partly because they have a layer of PVC or high density foam wrapping the rails, but just as importantly they are vaccuum bagged to REMOVE EXCESS RESIN. This makes for a strong lamination. Fins systems work the same way. You want the resin around and under your box to be catalyzed at a slow rate if you want it to cure properly and make your installation strong. Some shops have great results with the FCS system but very rarely are these boards coming from shops doing tons of boards per week. Smaller guys can afford to slow things down a bit and everything comes out better. When you use the potting method (Probox/FCS/Speedfins etc…) you risk losing control of your installation process by having people overcatalyzing resin. The resin becomes more brittle, and your box will fail much easier gauranteed. To think that this would’nt happen to probox would just be nieve. Spend some time in the shops and you’ll see what I mean. I’ve trained people all over the world to install our system and many times(if not most of the time) I’m training guys that have either never used a router, or don’t know the difference between catalyst and hairspray. I’m often training them from square one. Being a surfboard builder for many years(here comes the important part) I realized this many years ago, especially when Bill Bahne sat me down and explained what I’ve just explained. “A tight rout” he said, will let you sleep at nite, and keep your sytem installed properly. Simply by eliminating the chance of the resin around and under the box to be cooked or set off too hot. You see, if the rout is tight, you can kick it off hot (way hotter than FCS) and you still get a fairly controlled catalyzation rate. Take a bucket of resin half full and add 10ccs of hardner. Stir it up, them pour a small amount into a dixie cup and place them on the ground next to eachother. Tell me which one goes off first, and which one turns yellow and starts cracking and smoking. It won’t be the one in the dixie cup I promise you. And if you do it with epoxy you better have a fire extinguisher nearby.
from my experience with sandwich boards
vacumm bagging the lam does very little for adding strength to the board.
and ive never had any problems with heat from install using epoxy with fcs
overall, fcs and high density inserts are an excellent system for eps boards
it is still the lightest and easiest to repair system available
and im yet to test probox (which i think have great potential)
however i when i do, i intend to set them in high density inserts
I dont have a problem with your product
it looks great
but there are plenty of viable alternatives out there
which in some cases work better
and if i were to use lokbox
id still use inserts
heres an idea for budding businessmen
a fin sytem with permanent alloy threads female inbeded in the board
then fcs type plugs would screw into the inserts
that way, if the plugs break
you simply unscrew it and screw in another