Greg, i appreciate your explanation about suspension system. Whilst there’s no harm in testing complicated structures to achieve the perfect surfboard, i still feel that core technologies cannot advance or be appreciated fully unless there is a similar advancement in the use of fin system technologies, adjustability being the main key.
There’s no good in having that perfectly constructed technologically advanced surf board if idoesn’t have fins.
so no matter what you include within the structure it all boils down to the way the fins react with that board for each surfer who rides it… and the fact is every surfer/shaper is different and “evolving” as we change to the surfing influences around us.
That’s the thing that adjustable fin system systems have to offer newer technologies, we can adjust with technology whilst the other “static” non-moveable system’s cannot.
There-in lies the key to offerring something that the surfing public has not experienced, the REAL Ferrari of surfboards. Because once you throw in the element of adjustability into the equation you begin a new realm of surfing where the shaper/surfer will begin to understand more about his board and how it works in different surf conditions and for the surfer too (they too are ever-changing and influenced).
So many variables under one lid so to speak but the key is to tap into each and every one of them and make them work for you, that’s what adjustability offers shapers firstly (the benefits are obvious) the only shift they have to make is to get in touch with technology and use it, then you have progression.
I hope what FW is doing, is the start of many things to come and most importantly the beginning of the age of ADJUSTABILITY in surfboards, it means boards will be more expensive but the value that lies there-in is just so much more!
I’ll tell ya, Ferrari does offer magic and they do sell it as magic for those who deserve – edit: “deserve it” – it by dint of their money
Without regard for what their driving is worth! LOL
Maybe Firewires will end up being the preferred surfboards of Ferrari drivers…
EDIT I thought the Firewire perimeter thing was supposed to be the be-all and end-all–WTF is with adding moving parts to the middle of the board? Fins are already integral to a surfboard’s flex etc
Are the Futures pros riding this stuff? Is it that good? I’m guessing not. I also do NOT get how the system is supposed to improve anything. Seems like anotherer meaningless variable to me.
I find better fins and foils, energetic durable layups with tuneable flex from board to board, better foam, and better resin to be much more satisfying technological advances for surfboards than adding moving parts.
Also, I realize now that while the car above is nice, it lacks that certain something–fins!
I’ve driven a few Ferraris, and ridden a few Firewires.
I’m not Michael Schumacher or Taj, but there is definitely a wonderful feeling of superior performance in advanced equipment, even for the average guy, like me.
Wildy, I’ll take your word for it on the Ferraris.
The comparison between Ferrari and surfboard should stop though – next thing you know, people will be calling surfboards F1 cars and F-22s fighter jets around here–it’s a joke, and composite construction techniques for exotic cars and F1 race cars and aerospace make all this surfboard business look like wanky zit-faced kids whittling rockets out of popcicle sticks.
Besides, where’s the biggest non-tow air photo you can find of a Firewire? Because COIL recently produced a pic of an unassisted 8 foot air on a pretty middling sized wave – I reckon that’s energy amplification, sensitivity, and the highest performance I’ve seen proof of, not to mention the art of the shaper, which, last I heard, Firewire had hired Adam MacHine to poop theirs out.
Shareholders in Firewire include: former Billabong International CEO Matthew Perrin, former Billabong GM Dougall Walker, and former VP of Marketing at Reef, Mark Price who heads up U.S. operations. Lets not forget Nev Hyman, who started the whole company.
-Jon
Just a question…does this make a company more valid?
For once i agree with Lokbox and whilst being a competitor to lokbox i also agree with their validations.
I am not going to use this opportunity to punt 4 ways (for this is honestly for those that don’t know: 4 Way Fin system: www.4wfs.com) but to pledge my support for all adjustable systems out there.
Both 4 ways and lokbox have adjustability and innovative breakpoints unlike our larger competitors. It’s about time the industry and surfers out there realize each surfboards potential and that there is no much that still needs to be achieved w.r.t technology in surfboards.
I can’t wait for the day that FW moves away from it’s use of “static” fin system technology and moves onto the adjustable fin systems that can offer so much more in performance options to get every surfer frothing over a FW…it’s easy …for those surfers and shapers that have converted already, there’s no turning back, they have seen the light that adjustable fin systems have to offer!
To all others out there, we could debate the pro’s and con’s on every fin system, but the moment we look outside the “box” (so to speak) there’s technology and innovation out there that people have spent their lives developing, all we have to do is open our minds and try it!
Regards to Tom and Lobox, keep up the good work.
cheers
Dean
And I find myself also agreeing. Supposedly innovative surfboards with more limited fin systems don’t make much sense. Unless you want to sell another board with a different angle or position of fins.
Craftee and kirk are right on the money when it comes to the suspension system.
It doesn’t have to do with weakness in the system when you want to continue to make the system better by introducing new ideas into it. FW has a right (some would say a responsability) to continue to evolve. I have all the respect in the world for Bert, but what your seeing now from FW is evolution beyond where it all started.
Hell, three of the principles of the company are former pro surfers. Surfboards are just a bit of a passion … just a bit! Making the stuff better is for us … not just for the consumer. We just want to pass along the best we can make. Give the public something they’ve never been able to buy elsewhere and lead the industry through example, past where we’ve been. If it has to be a bit more complicated then so be it, we’ll build that. Others won’t. A Ferrari just happens to be a bit more complicated than a Neon. For those who want the best they should be able to have that Ferrari shouldn’t they? The surfboard industry has spent too many years diving for the bottom striving for market share through low price alone. We can do better and that’s FW’s goal.
Nothing I’ve just stated is anything I haven’t written on here dozens of times through the last four years. Finding like minded partners was always something we were looking for. We found that.
Damn Greg…I agree with some of what your saying…but who cares if the principles are ex pro surfers? That does not mean squat. Some of the best innovators are not pro level rippers.
Also…I have no problem with you guys making a product that alot of people buy and makes you alot of money in the long run. I wish you the best. But don’t come on and in a condescending manner tell some of the rest of us that don’t buy into that lot that we need to be led by example. I don’t agree with your exampe of Ferrari Vs Neon either…though I admit it would make a good market advertisment. I don’t think what your selling is the best…I don’t think everyone will agree with you on that. It’s just another alternative…so when you ask if someone wants the best they should be able to have a ferrari…it only applies to those that feel your project is that. As for it being so complicated…why build a so called ferrari and put Cooper non HL rated tires on it?
I agree with the low price comment, but some customers want low price and see little difference. Others simply don’t care about the techy end of things and want to ride what they are used to. Some of them do it very well without F.W. Pro surfers are not board designers and usually only know one way to market something…by saying “look at him…he rips…you can to if you buy one of these.”
I had forgotten that–adjustability. F-word. Here I have two surfboards with (I fancy them) novel design elements (EDIT: stubbyish outline with curve + bump, for front-footer, etc, + quad fins–the set–not the indiv. elements–being unorthodox)
and I find myself baffled about what set of Futures quad fins to use, how to toe them, where to place them, and nobody around here glasses using any of the systems with adjustability, which would moderate the criticality of my decision…
I can’t get 4WFS here in the states (don’t know if its good for EPS anyway, but 4 way adjustability seems good), and I don’t have/can’t afford the jig for Lokbox…
In their way, theyre more complex than F1 cars, I think, because flows interact much more complexly on a craft that operates on a surface that is changing, with its own flows, loaded with human rider and shaper elements, in 3 dimensional flight, than the isolatable thrust vectors for a car that operates mostly on a flat plane, and/but/so the differences there and with the construction methods and the forces in those kinds of cars just overwhelm the analogy, and I think it’s ridiculous to say that Firewires are Ferraris. It’s hyperbole, adspeak, spin.
Evolution: products have flaws that get glossed over in PR materials, flaws that users try to deal with/prevent, recover/salvage the negative outcomes, so someone is always working on a better mousetrap to beat that product. I’m glad our glorious system of free enterprise continually seeks people with superior products and makes them rich, although people will always use sales skills to stave off comers.
I also love how the products seem always to be better when the maker is as close as physically possible to the community using it and getting feedback which he then incorporates to evolve his product and eliminate its flaws. There’s elegant beauty in that aspect of capitalism.
It probably helps the validity of their business plan and earnings forecast. Others before them have already proven the validity of the the concept and technology. The future suspension system is what, 4 or 5 years old already? This isn’t groundbreaking stuff. Its just stuff that nobody else has capitalized on yet.
-Jon
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Shareholders in Firewire include: former Billabong International CEO Matthew Perrin, former Billabong GM Dougall Walker, and former VP of Marketing at Reef, Mark Price who heads up U.S. operations. Lets not forget Nev Hyman, who started the whole company.
-Jon
Just a question…does this make a company more valid?
The Ferrari analogy isn’t the best for another reason too. How many people walk into a Ferrari dealership and buy one off the lot? Not many. Most are built to the owners specification.
But at the same time I wouldnt be upset at Greg. You wouldnt talk poorly about anything you have an interest in being sucessful either. From what I’ve read and heard from people they (Firewire’s) do work well. I just couldnt ever justify spending that much on a board when I can just make my own that will work just as good for me.
Janklow, FYI 4ways is available in the USA, contact them on usa@4wfs.com and my offer still stands to all… if you don’t get the service you need within 24-48 hours we will be able to sort you out from our Headquarters.
w.r.t issue of EPS, one of the reasons we developed the HD block with circular shape High Density foam block slightly larger than our round box was to give our customers the option of added strength if they felt they needed it.
Interestingly enough it was developed to add strength particularily to the twin fin and semi-keel fin set-ups as well as the ever-increasing variable quality of PU cores since Clark Foam closed and the world was being inundated with foam from various sources all trying to capitalize on the former’s closure.
If u need any info on the above visit our web-site; www.4wfs.com where u can find all the info on the HD inserts and dealer contact information.
Feel free to contact me directly if you require anything: deang@4wfs.com
The Ferrari analogy isn’t the best for another reason too. How many people walk into a Ferrari dealership and buy one off the lot? Not many. Most are built to the owners specification.
But at the same time I wouldnt be upset at Greg. You wouldnt talk poorly about anything you have an interest in being sucessful either. From what I’ve read and heard from people they (Firewire’s) do work well. I just couldnt ever justify spending that much on a board when I can just make my own that will work just as good for me.
-Jon
Greg knows it’s nothing personal. He is right about much of his idealogy…I’m just not buying the rap on Firewire…and for that matter epoxy either. It’s an alternative…not the state of the art. At least not yet. They have been going on about it for years and it’s never taken over though much effort has been made to push it into the mainstream.
huie these guys have always gotten a pass because most of us are super-interested in the product they sell, and there’s feedback, which we and they may find value in. They’re out on a limb, so it’s not an ad.
There are precedents–some have shared provocative bits of their tech knowledge and stimulated following evolution. Nobody would ever see this stuff in any of the other fora