In the water yesterday I started talking to a guy who after years of no-bucks living was finally able to buy a new board. He went for a board from one of the big-name longboard manufacturers…pretty board, and seemed to be working well for him…but he had a complaint: the bottom of the board (2 months old) is covered with pinholes, is not watertight, and has a pox of yellowing spots. I remember the furor in the mid 90s over Clark blanks off-gassing and blowing through laminations, but I thought that problem was “solved.” Is there any other way pinholes like this could happen? Regardless of the cause, I think this is a clear case of defective product, and the big name longboard manufacturer owes this guy a new board. Somebody else in the discussion yesterday said pinholes are just “something that happens, no big deal, live with it, big name manufacturer isn’t obligated to respond.” I’m curious to hear others’ opinions.
Doing lamination work with the temperature rising tends to cause off gasing. Doing it with the tempature declining tends to minumize the kind of reaction.
Is it a defective product–A LEMON–or not? Do those BIG MANUFACTURERS stand behind their product or not? Would you stand behind yours?
Doing lamination work with the temperature rising tends to cause off gasing. Doing it with the tempature declining tends to minumize the kind of reaction.
Hey snaptop, Sounds to me like the workmanship isn’t up to snuff. What happened when you took it back where you bought it? Mahalo, Rich
Howzit snaptop, pin holes can be prevented with the application of a sweetcoat(basting) of lam resin before the bottom hotcoat. Unfortunatly most big time factories omit this step to save time and materials. It only takes about 50 cents worth of resin and 10 mins.( with UV resin) to eliminate the problem. Aloha, Kokua
Take the board back to the manufacturer.No quality manufacturer would want you to ride that board in public.They will take care of you if they made a mistake.
Kokoua, how does this sweetcoat work exactly. It sounds like it could solve some of my pinhole problems. I know that glassing outside doesnt help but maybe your method is the real ticket. thanks a bunch. Darren
] …After the lamming has gone off(kind of stiff).Squeege a thin coat of hotbatch lam resin on the entire lammed area.USE a brush for the rails.Herb
Howzit Herb, the techique I use is to wait until I’ve hotcoated the deck and rails. Next I lam the re-enforcement patches for the FCS, when those kick I do a tape off deck side of the rail tuck. Now I squeegee lam resin over the bottom, brush resin along the lap to the tape off, pull the tape as it kicks and hot coat. This is a step that should be done on all sanded finish boards and is optional for glossed boards, I do it now on everyboard except our restained abstract bottoms since those seal the blank before lamming. Aloha, Kokua
Singles only, See the post to Herb in this thread. Aloha, Kokua
…Kokua,I baste both sides and rails,but after all the lam work is done.I might baste between the lams as well for guns etc.Herb
Gassing happens…Should be limited and pinholes rarely show up if the lamination is done in the correct temperature and the resin is kicked with the proper ration of cat. (this is with poly. res.) To baste a poly. res is simple, and true, not to many glassers do this. It doesn’t matter what the reason is…they just don’t do this. I feel they should. When a large batch of resin is going off on a lamination the gas finds the weakest link to surface from…it happens. Don’t count on the hot coat to fill in all of the pin-holes. Fill in the pin holes with a small batch of lam. resin which is not set to kick too hot. Take a hard edged squeegee and work the resin into the holes. I find it is best when the resins “just” starts to thicken. EPOXY RESIN: It is a requirement to baste a lamination. A lot of guys don’t take enough care to baste their laminations, usually because epoxy resins is expensive and basting takes more time away from the laminator. A board builder who wants to keep a good reputation will do a good thorough basting on both the bottom and deck laminations. It is especially crucial to baste Extruded Styro Foam blanks because of the inherent chemicals which cause the boards to delaminate. Some think that pinholes are a good way for the gas to escape. That is not true. Natural pinholes indicate a potential problem area. Pinholes set in after the fact, don’t solve the problem either. The only solution to pinholes and delamination problems associated with epoxy boards is to eliminate the chemical causing the gassing problem. Beeno ain’t going to cut it. I am working on solving this problem and am very close to a solution. I will post my solution and or product when I am convinced I have the right answer. FOR NOW: I would stick to PolyUrethane blanks with a basting. Or I would use Styro, but be very very careful to baste properly(don’t skimp on the resin, if money is an issue then you shouldn’t be using epoxy) and be aware of the consequences of leaving a board in a hot car or hot sun and be aware of quick delams.
Thanks a lot, that clears up a lot of things. WHat kind of resin do you use Steve?
Steve, I have never had a blowthrough problem with epoxies on urethane blanks. I have never basted an epoxy lamination either. I have seen blowthrough in polyester and certainly there were problems with this issue when the poly resins went to 35% styrene. Since the change in Clark blanks (mid 90’s) blowthrough is a rare occurrence even without basting. Poly or epoxy. Now on extruded blanks there can be issues of blowthrough. But as was written above, descending temperatures will solve that. We just laminate and then turn down the AC. Also faster epoxy hardener eliminates 90% of this. On EPS, blowthrough does not generally happen IF the foam manufacturer adequately ages the beads after pre-expansion. If this is done, blowthrough is something that you might see 2-3 times a year in a 10-15 a week shop. IMHO basting, which used to be called cheater coating, is unnecessary in most applications. There are times when you may need to, but, there are a dozen different ways to get the same quality without basting and not get the disadvantages basting causes. Lastly, to snaptop, basting probably would have saved the board but so would a quality lamination to begin with. The manufacturer owes you, at least, a quality repair.
I heard that you need to turn the AC up after a lamination, not down.>>>>>>The manufacturer owes you, at least, a quality repair. I COULDN’T AGREE MORE!!! Greg, where do you buy your extruded blanks or foam? I’d like to get ahold of some. I appreciate your humble opinion, but so many people have told me about basting lateley. I hear Epoxy Pro even does a basting and they are the “cheapest” guys in the business–the last company I think would spend time and money on a basting if they didn’t need one. Can you list the foam places you deal with that don’t have gassing problems?
Don’t even start me on Epoxy pro. I have had so many fricken problems with them. I’ve tried to speak with them, but half the fricken crew there don’t speak English. I don’t know if Havier acts stupid or(tring to hide behind his broken English giving his lame-ass excuses). Gassing should be preventable. Even the board I got that had his supposed vent system delamed. I am going to try a Point Blank board before I fully give up.
…I baste everyboard.They don’t weigh anymore than a non-basted stick and are stronger for it. …My boards are tops …all or most are sand finish, ,You can ask some of the guys at the Swaylocks gathering about my glassing.Even I can’t find any burns to the glass.I usually sand to 320 machine,and finish with wet handwork/400.Then, let them sit for a couple days,come back and supercrylic the entire board.Let dry…and finish it off with a pro-auto polish, a low rpm machine and wooly. …I consistantly have to tell people that my boards are not glossed !!! Herb
Herb, I like that look…a sanded hotcoat that looks like a gloss. I agree, basting does not make a board heavier. I’ve discovered that my hot coats require a smidgen less resin and they come out better if I baste the board. With epoxy many guys don’t like to baste because they don’t want to mix a small batch. If you measure and mix correctly, and let the resin sit in the bucket just a little longer than normal you’ll get the right basting consistancy. Herb, have you tried Gregs exopy?? It sounds like some great stuff.
Howzit Herb, People think basting adds weight but they don’t realize that it basically comes off when the board gets sanded. Have you tried attaching the green scrubber to a pad and going over the sanded finish to blend the sanding scratches. I am also using the scrubber on the acrylic finish,the board might not be as shiny but it seems to make for a speedier finish. You still coming to Kauai next month? Aloha, Kokua