Hi all, this is just a random thought and a thought that I thought would be a good post in this forum. If you feel inclined to respond that’s awesome, if this subjuect has already been discussed and over-discussed than I don’t blame you for passing on it, with that said, the more people that post I feel the better since this is, in my opinion, an obviously highly debated subject among shapers and surfers alike. Also as a side note, i’m not looking to start a fight with anyone about glass-on fins, I’m just curious of other shapers’ and surfers’ opinions.
So after the long intro, my question is what’s the deal with all the big top name pros claiming glass-on fins are way better than removable fin systems? I have no real problem with glass-ons, but as a surfer and person that loves to travel with my boards, It’s a comfort to know that my fins are not going to be broken off in the process of traveling. And, I can’t help but wonder, with all the traveling the top pros do all over the world, why would they want glass-ons over FCS, Futures, or other removable fins, etc. I have surfed quite a few boards with glass-ons and with Removable systems and I honestly can’t tell the difference. Now, I’m no Kelly Slater, but I am a good surfer and the way I see it is, if you can choose surfing a board with the option to change the fins and ultimitely the way the board performs based on the waves and which fins are on that board, how could you possibly want glass-ons? I know the pros travel with 15 plus boards or have local shapers make them boards wherever they are, but usually they ride a few boards of similar type everywhere, so why would they not want to be able to adjust their fins on their boards based on swell and surf conditions?
Some people like glass ons, some people like removeable fin systems. Its a bit like asking people why they like brunette's over blondes. Personal choice. My most fave board had glass ons. My next custom will have glass ons. The fins and board feel completely connected, if that makes any sense. I like fin systems too though!
I love the performance of glass on fins. But I almost always do FCS for fine tuning with different fins and resale. As I generally keep a board long enough to learn what I want from it then make a new version and sell the old. And of course all my travel boards are FCS just because. But when i do get a design “nailed down” for me i make a glass on version. Always seems to ride a bit better. And I only use 101 bamboo fins from Marlin Bacon or fins made from brunzeel marine ply. Like Skip Frye say’s “Why put fins on a board that don’t float”
I remember when shortboards ONLY had glassons. And I remember when I first started riding FCS and how it felt like there was less drive and less responsiveness. Then I guess I just got used to it… fins improved… boards improved… and it just became what everybody rode around me. Then I started building my own boards again, and glassing on fins, and I could feel the difference again. Not as much, because all the other components had improved, but I could definitely feel a difference.
As for removable fin systems, now I use Probox. I like being able to dial in a board with different cant and fore/aft adjustability. And once I dial it in, I don’t need to change it up again.
There should be point deductions when anyone with less than 10 posts mentions ‘Kelly Slater’.
Deductions should double if its the first post.
Given that, I havent surf glass ons in years. The FCS double cup system would not be equivalent to glass ons at all. The FCS Fusion, perhaps close, havent used it.
adjustable Probox,…very close or razor slim difference, have used it.
The board and fins flex together, and the board can be lighter.
"I know the pros travel with 15 plus boards..."
"...why would they not want to be able to adjust their fins on their boards based on swell and surf conditions?"
Different board for different waves, fins the same. The template for fins would be chosen to match the conditions that the board is meant to be surfed in.
Less likely to blow a chunk out of a board you love with a glass on.
I think removable fins are more about shipping and fitting boards on the rack in a surfshop than anything else. Fiberglass fins outperform molded plastic fins any day.
PS: My first board was a channel bottom twin fin with removable Rainbow Fins.
The big difference is between plastic and glass fins....err you can't glass on plastic fins....can you?
I think it's BS. A good installed set of boxes, and a good set of fiberglass fins is a perfect set up. I think fin systems got a bad rap when FCS made the cheapo plastic fins. Since then there are hundreds of good fin and good fin systems.
If you search the net, you can find a pro, for example jordy smith or mick fanning stating how much more they like glass-ons. I’ve read more than a few interviews of top pros saying they prefer glass-ons. Thats’s just one example, another is, watching many pro contests around the world, I have noticed more boards with glass-ons, than with fin systems. If you saw the recent quik pro at snapper rocks in oz, nearly every board of Jordy smiths had glass-ons, as well as many other pros. Not all, but many.
“Different board for different waves, fins the same. The template for fins would be chosen to match the conditions that the board is meant to be surfed in.”
In my experience competing and free-surfing, consistency comes through practice. The more practice on one board the better I surf, so for example, instead of three different boards, i would prefer three of the same shapes and adjust the fins to the waves, but thats just me. I do notice many top pros ride the same shapes over and over and bring many of the exact same shapes with them to compete and do place well, so I know theres truth in it. But i see your point of view as well.
I would never put glass-ons on any of my boards. I do choose futures because they have a bigger base down in the box and because I have had FCS snap off on bottom turns. But as a guy who rides nothing but quads (from my 6’0" Simmons to my 9’2" gun) I am constantly changing fins to deal with different wave sizes and conditions. If your an advanced enough surfer to be able to comprehend the benefits of multiple fin set-ups then you would never go back to glass-ons. On the other hand if your the type of surfer that doesn’t want to think about your fins, you just want whatever set the shaper puts on so you can get used to them then glass-ons would be fine… and so would any fin system with one set of fins. As far as performance goes most fin systems make fiberglass fins, composite fins, honeycomb core fins, on and on. All with different flex patterns and performance. Again more information than most surfer care to consider or experiment with (especially when a set of fins cost $100) but no doubt these fins system fins have similar if not better performance than stiff fiberglass glass-on fins. Chances are a touring pro with 15 boards all with glass-ons has already considered fins and the boards he carries might have different fin sizes, placement, foil etc. Lots of pros will have 3 or 4 boards all very close to the same size but set up for different conditions. People that have to buy their own boards and would like more range from that one board should use fin systems and put their money into fin options, not more boards. And since guys like…yes Kelly Slater… choose to use fin systems like FCS, (in my opinion the weakest of all fin systems) that must tell you something. What it tells me is glass-ons are simply a fashion statement like trucker hats and since many pro surfers can be compared to brainless sheep they all tend to follow what the others think is cool. This fact along with the staggering complexity of fins, fin sizes, fin templates, foils, flex patterns, material composition and the never ending list of fin options available…most surfer just get flustered by their inability to learn what works and why and they just follow what they see around them or what some other guy has convinced them they should have. So if you just want to surf a board without having to think about adjustments and you don’t travel much go with glass-ons. If you want to tweak, experiment, adjust, change the way one board rides get a fin system you like and start buying different fins every time you buy a new board. Then you can change them up and discover the mad scientist inside you.
I read your user profile. You should be teaching us not asking us questions.....
White boxes look like white foam so the boards look like glass on fins.....Do you have any quotes or links of pro surfers talking about glass ons being better? Most pros are sponsered by a fin company so I am having trouble with Mr.Go Sojourner's statments about fins.....
On a backyard level I think glass ons are better...aka "cheaper" ...but I'm getting ready to make a ProBox order this week.
I’d agree with you for sure on the feeling connected statement. I have a few boards that are personnal ones that just get minor changes board to board. Once I feel that the board is pretty dialed then it gets a good set of foam cored glass-ons. Such a great feeling to have a good board with a good set of glassed on fins. Glass ons feel so much more solid when riding. The board is one whole unit. With boxes the fins always feel separate from the board.
The only ones that ever felt close are some of the new constructions with the carbon in the base of the fin. The few I’ve tried fit super tight in the box (Futures) and have almost zero flex at the base.
Done my own testing and have a few templates in glass ons that are go to’s for certain boards. Penalty for screwing it up is a bit higher. Got to be able to match the right template for the right board.
And for sure boxes are superior. Easier to install, can try different templates, great for traveling (whats that?), can have options (thruster, quad). But still, so pumped on freshies with glass-ons, cheehuu!
Then the whole glassing the fin onto the board process. I know guys can do it in their sleep, but I always get a feeling of accomplishment getting all three or four on straight, even, and strong. If you haven’t given it a go its an experience for sure, especially your first time.
FCS have a smaller relative anchoring area and tend to flex laterally especially with Joe Pro’s ultra light glass/foam and rip out easier. Futures are like fiberglass reinforcing bars in the tail so they stiffen the tail and change the flex pattern. Big single fin boxes do the same. Glass ons are just on the surface of course so under a heavy footed turn the foam can compress easier and add a bit more rocker in the tail so Joe Pro can do his 270 degree cutback. Cant say I can notice the difference except in single fins, but I ain’t on the dubya c-t either. Dont know about the other fin systems
One great thing about a good box system - You may lose fins to the rocks, but that’s all. Granted, I use a heavy glass schedule, and cap or put the boxes in before lamminating.
I had some “pro” made fcs, two holes, light glass job… Fin hit a rock just enough to almost break the tabs (fin was hangin by the edge of one tab) and still cracked the glass around the box.
I’ve had RedX fins ripped out from hard rock slams and no box/board damage. My 4ways seem to be holding up too - only lost one fin so far, no other damage.
If I wanted a different board for different conditions, I guess I could think about glass ons, but I love being able to adjust a board for small mush, or over head barrels…
