I’ve only used E glass, and while I like the weight of the 4 oz cloth, I don’t like its lack of durability. I’m curious about going to 4 oz Volan or S glass. How much more durable are these fabrics (eg - is 4 oz Volan as durable as 6 oz E glass?)? Are these as easy to work with as E glass? Could I mix a 6 oz bottom layer of E glass with two deck layers of 4 oz Volan or S glass? Can someone who has worked with both Volan and S glass tell me which they prefer and why? Thanks.
Hey Doug i’ve use it all. Volan being green its old school and yes it’s stronger. They say??? I’ve only used 7.5oz or 8oz i use it on longboards with 2 1/2" rail cuts… Wider the better i say… Then you talked about 4s 4e and 4volan… I see it like this 4e is clean, clear and strong enough for shortboards as long as you wrap it wide and tight. 4s is very strong for it’s weight it holds more resin the weave… It’s not as clear or clean ( brown spots show after you pour the resin ) and that much more for the cost and stiff feel… I hate sanding it. So when i use s cloth i only use it on the bottom and as a deck patch then i cover with e. 4volan it’s green and you have to cut laps no thanks. i charge $30 ( $15 a side ) more for cut laps of volan… As far as mixing it can get tricky when you lay 6 over 4 it slides easy don’t bump your prep… I perfer using 4e on blue foam on shortboards. its more then strong enough. on long boards a 4.5s bottom and 4e deck patch with 6e over the top makes for a strong but lighter HP longboard. 7.5 volan on the tankers is way strong and cool school… Hope that helps remember Keep it simple!!!>>> I’ve only used E glass, and while I like the weight of the 4 oz cloth, I > don’t like its lack of durability. I’m curious about going to 4 oz Volan > or S glass. How much more durable are these fabrics (eg - is 4 oz Volan as > durable as 6 oz E glass?)? Are these as easy to work with as E glass? > Could I mix a 6 oz bottom layer of E glass with two deck layers of 4 oz > Volan or S glass? Can someone who has worked with both Volan and S glass > tell me which they prefer and why? Thanks. http://surfnwsc.com
when doing diff. combos of cloth…what piece should go on first 4 oz. or 6 oz?
when doing diff. combos of cloth…what piece should go on first 4 oz. or > 6 oz? Never lay thin over thick… http://surfnwsc.com
Careful for what you thank someone for. Actually, Volan is the sizing (coating) that is covering the e-glass. The sizing on your 4 oz glass is called Silane. It is designed to make a very clear laminate. Both of these coatings are compatible with polyester and epoxies. Wether the coating has a better bond to the other is debatable, however 4 oz Volan is not readily available. Both of these products are made from E-Glass. S-glass has a slightly different chemical makeup in its raw material. Yes it has higher strength properties. You can also order what is called “direct sized” glass in both E and S that have higher physicals since it is not heat cleaned. Fibers are stiffer and harder to work with. Hexcel’s e-glass version is marketed as “Real White Glass” or RWG. You can also buy a flat weave S glass. Since there is no twist in the fibers, you will get a thinner laminate with less resin. The draw back is boards made with a flat weave S glass gets compression dings easier. Overall if you want the best strength for your money, you will learn how to use Direct Sized E-glass. S-glass is very expensive. Sluggo
Actually, Volan is the sizing (coating) that is covering the e-glass. The > sizing on your 4 oz glass is called Silane. It is designed to make a very > clear laminate. Both of these coatings are compatible with polyester and > epoxies. Wether the coating has a better bond to the other is debatable, > however 4 oz Volan is not readily available. Both of these products are > made from E-Glass. One thing about the debate between Volan and Silene coatings is that Volan is much more difficult and expensive to make, in part because of environmental restrictions, yet it is still being manufactured. The retro-surfboard market can’t be large enough to justify this, so there muse be something to Volan beyond cool looking cut laps for us old timers. My own experience with Volan is that it isn’t objectively stonger, but it is more durable over time. My 3 year old Volan boards are still going strong, whereas my Silene boards with the same glass schedual turn to junk in a few months, and land fill within a year.
Never lay thin over thick… Why? It would seem like you would need less resin to fill the weave in a thin cloth thus reducing weight. Cons? regards, Håvard
Why? It would seem like you would need less resin to fill the weave in a > thin cloth thus reducing weight. Cons?>>> regards,>>> Håvard Hey Harvard The only way you could do 4 over 6 is with a inlay. If you cut a patch to the rails edge which is the norm you take a chance of sand thru when sanding. It’s all about blending and the fact of the thicker cloth being under the thinner cloth… Uneven rail will sand thru… Plus if i was mixing 4/6 in a deck it would be to make for a stronger yet lighter board i would gain that by wraping 6 not 4 around the rail??? Plus i would have a better blend on my wrap and a stronger rail… as far as weight goes if you put 4 over 6 it better weigh the same as 6 over 4 or your not laming it right??? It should weigh the same other then the fact you have a little more 6 wraping the rail… http://surfnwsc.com
…if I want the weight of say a six bottom with a double six deck,but I’m trying to grab as much strength as possible,and money is no object. …(all in E type glass) …Double 4oz bottom. …a double 4oz deck with a full layer of 6oz between the two layers of 4oz. …SUPER TOUGH,and lighter in wt. than the latter,if done correctly.Herb
…if I want the weight of say a six bottom with a double six deck,but > I’m trying to grab as much strength as possible,and money is no object.>>> …(all in E type glass)>>> …Double 4oz bottom.>>> …a double 4oz deck with a full layer of 6oz between the two layers > of 4oz.>>> …SUPER TOUGH,and lighter in wt. than the latter,if done > correctly.Herb Herb, My favorite boards are mid length. I’ve found that the difference in weight in a real light glass job just isn’t worth it. If you wrap the whole board with double 4oz. as you say and work a 6oz patch from a little ways up the tail to about the middle of the board the amount of weight gained on say an 8’0" board over a single layer 6oz glass job is very minor. Whether it make the board sluggish is a matter of conjecture. That depends on the surfer as much as anything else. I don’t think the weight increase a glass job like this can be much more that 15 percent. It may be less. I’d like to know what the difference really would be. I think if the shaped blank weighs 5.5 pounds one glass job might weigh about 6 pounds and the other about 7 pounds. I’ll tell you one thing for sure. The slightly heavier board will hold up so much better than the lighter one it’s amazing! I’m getting read to work up an 8’3"x21.75" swallow this way. I’ll let you know what it weighs when it’s done. As far as I’m concern I wouldn’t do it anyother way. Mahalo, Rich
…Do you guys mean you wrap both layers on each side around the rail? Thanks, Scott
A quick primer on glasses, E-glass is short for electrical glass and is in relation to how the individual filaments are produced from raw materials. S-2 glass is the commercial version of S glass which uses a different manufacturing process to make the individual yarns. After the yarns are made they have to be spun and woven into fabrics. Styles 1522(3.7 oz), 7533(5.6 oz), 1521(3.7 warp), & 7580(6oz warp) are E-glasses that are woven with a twisted yarn the additional handling and twisting of the yarn makes it weaker. Styles 372 & 3733, 5.2oz(K-glass, which is an e-glass) and 5.6oz respectively are flat weaves, which means that the yarns are not twisted. This improves the tensile strength but also makes them harder to laminate. Volan is typically used where clarity is not an issue. It was used in early boards because that is what was commercialy availble, Silane finish has been developed for clear laminations, specifically for surfboards. 4oz Volan is readily available, however you would either have to buy 60" widths and split it or by a whole roll of 60" and get it split by the supplier. The finish is what allows the resin to adhere to the glass, it used to be that volan was a better finish however it is pretty much a toss up now. Both BGF and Hexcel have direct sized E-glasses, The RWG, which stands for Really White Glass is Hexcel’s and Burlington offers the Aeralite A218 finish in a direct size which is denoted by an “N” following the style number. RWG was not a big hit when it came out, however the BGF fabric seems to be a well accepted fabric. RWG is available in rolls in style 7533 from Fiberglass Supply and BGF’s direct sized glass is available from them in 1522N and 7533N in roll quantity. Direct sizing means that the yarns are sized before weaving and that cloth does not have to be washed and sized after being woven. This is possible due to the use of newer, cleaner looms that don’t get the cloth dirty as it is being made. As to durability you have to step back and look at the whole picture, substrate, glass, resin, and application. Where are your failure areas? Is your glass failing or your resin? Typically the problems that I see are not related to the tensile strength of the glass but the breakdown of the resin on the deck from being compressed. There are two ways to combat that, use more glass on the deck, and use a better resin system. Good Luck, Matthew>>> I’ve only used E glass, and while I like the weight of the 4 oz cloth, I > don’t like its lack of durability. I’m curious about going to 4 oz Volan > or S glass. How much more durable are these fabrics (eg - is 4 oz Volan as > durable as 6 oz E glass?)? Are these as easy to work with as E glass? > Could I mix a 6 oz bottom layer of E glass with two deck layers of 4 oz > Volan or S glass? Can someone who has worked with both Volan and S glass > tell me which they prefer and why? Thanks.
…Do you guys mean you wrap both layers on each side around the rail?>>> Thanks, Scott …Yes,for the most part.Or you can stagger the laps.Herb