I shaped a skimboard out of a old shortboard of mine, im going to use 6 oz eglass and polyester resin. Im going to put three layers of cloth on top and two on bottom. so my question is: with so many layers, do i put: (bottom) cloth resin cloth resin hot coat gloss? or is it possible to skip the many layers of resin and do: cloth cloth resin gloss? (i would like the board to weigh under 5 lbs if possible) also, should i wrap the rails with every layer of cloth? it seems to me that 5 layers on the rails seems like a lot
foam skimboards get pressure dings really easily without many layers of cloth, especially with surfboard foam, (skims are usally made with divinycell foam) so thats the reason for the many layers of cloth.
hey skim, i was thinking about doing a few skimboards this summer for my self and a few friends. I think deathfrog makes some insane boards but i am not sure if it was him. hopefully he will reply to this sooner or later and we can glean some info off of him
Not sure what you mean about cloth cloth resin unless you’re talking about glassing both layers on the bottom at once. In which case if you’re pretty confident in your glassing skills than it’s possible. Not sure how much weight you’ll save by doing it that way, probably not much. It’s pretty easy with polyester resin. You don’t have to wrap all the layers around the rails, the layer underneath you can cut at the apex of the rail. It doesn’t hurt to have some extra glass on the rails, though I don’t know if rails are that much of an issue on a skimboard.
yea, i mean putting two sheets of cloth directly on eachother THEN applying the resin. Could you do the same thing for three sheets of cloth? Also would a board come out completely bad if you were to skip the hot coat and just do a gloss over the laminate layer? Is there anyother ways of reducing wieght with the materials im using?
The easiest way to reduce weight would be to skip the gloss step altogether. The hot coat is primarily to fill in the weave of the last layer of cloth, so that when you sand you don’t hit the cloth. You can do 3 layers all at once too, it’s just a little tricky and easier to get air bubbles trapped somewhere under there, which could eventually lead to a delam.
The only way to reduce weight without comprimising the structural integrity would be to use layers of 4 oz glass instead, or on the deck, 4x4x6 and then 4x4 on the bottom. Using epoxy resin might even save you a little bit of weight as it’s a tad lighter. Although if you do use epoxy I’d recommend not glassing all the layers together because it’s very hard to get them all wetted out.
I don’t know exactly how much lighter 4 oz is, or if it will even be noticable. if you already ordered 6 oz then don’t sweat it. The 6 oz is stronger anyway. Try to cut corners by not wrapping all the layers around the rails. A drier lamination will help keep weight down too. And if you do a fill coat right after the lam kicks you can probably skip a hotcoat altogether. Just make sure you rough up the lap area that’s been fill coated before you do laminate the other side.
sorry for my lack of terminolgy knowledge, whats the lap area? fill coat? are you basically saying to apply the final layer of resin when the lam layer is in a gel state?(cured but not fully dry)
Sorry, I didn’t really explain myself well enough.
A fill coat is when you apply your hotcoat resin just after the lam resin gels. Apply it just like a hotcoat but don’t tape off the rails, just brush it on. Some people call it a “Cheater coat” because you if you do it you can often get away without a hotcoat. It basically fills in the weave of the cloth so you don’t hit it when you’re sanding.
The lap area is the area on the other side of the board which your laps will cover. If you fill coat all the way to the edge, some of it will be in the lap area. You’ll have to sand this because the hotcoat resin wax will prevent the lamination from sticking. Also good to take down any bumps so the next lam will be smoother.
ok, heres another simple question that i dont know: I know that theres laminating resin that drys sticky and gloss resin that drys hard, but is there a specific hot coat resin? or is it the laminating resin or gloss resin? also, could you tell me what resins go with what coat?
Laminating resin is for structural applications… like laying cloth, glassing on fins, or putting in plugs/boxes. It contains no surfacing agent, so the surface that is in contact with air never fully cures so it’s tacky on top. If you sand through the surface, and you’ll go through a lot of paper trying to, it’s not tacky underneath. Surfacing agents have wax added which rises to the surface and prevents air from coming in contact with the resin, so it cures with a tack free surface. Gloss resin has both wax and a higher concentration of cobalt (I think) to make it really shine when polished. Hot coating is usually done with laminating resin plus a surface agent.
Lam with lam resin, fill in the weave with a hot coat by adding SA and a healthy dose of catalyst, then, sand down to a perfectly level surface. If you want it looking glossy, float a thin gloss coat over that, sand minimally, then buff and polish. If you’re really good with the sander, you can skip the hot coat and do a gloss coat right over the lam.
If you’re using epoxy, I recommend Resin Research and a good 'ol double dose of Additive F for the hot coat. There is no such thing as epoxy gloss resin that I know of, so you can’t get the mirror effect with epoxy…yet.
Hey Skim. Good to see someone else from Humboldt. That is if your from Humblodt, co. USA. If you go with 2+3 layers of glass and wrap them all around the rail (“lap”)your board will be strong and stiff. I’m guessing that those are desirable qualities for a skim board. But it will be heavy. You could just lap three layers and add a deck patch (a layer of glass that doesn’t go around the rail or goes only where your feet will be). If you go with the five layer lap, you will probably get some air in the lam, as was already mentioned. This isn’t a huge deal but it will look bad if you have any color on your board. You could also use 4oz glass for your last layer. That will help to smooth the surface out a bit as 4oz has a tighter weave. Lastly, I’d also go with Resin Research epoxy. It’s expensive but really strong and so long as you’ve got a clean, warm place to lam your set. If not, go with UV cure polyester resin. Have fun. Eric
If you’re using polyester resin, you do not need to sand the lam layer, except for the lap… you’ll want to fair that down as much as possible.
If you’re using epoxy, I like to rough it up a bit and give it a good denatured alcohol wipe before putting on a hot coat, especially if you’re waiting a while to do the next step. But the word is, and I’ve never tried it, you can hotcoat with epoxy over the lam when it’s still tacky, and you’ll get a great bond.
Rachel and NJ surfer have some good information for you.
I bet you’re still a little confused. Try Swaylopedia at the top of the page. Look in the resources section under articles or something like that. Do a search. I know it takes time…
You ask good questions so don’t stop asking questions…
There’s a lot of slang but you’ll get the hang of it.
Lam = lamination… but sometimes it means the logo that goes under the glass
Lap = overlap
Hot coat and surfacing resin are the same thing. I think it’s also called fill coat in Oz.
since this is my first foam board that i made, im going to use polyester resin and 6 oz cloth. My board is 54" by about 20", i think what would be easyest is to put resin on every layer of cloth. With that said, how much resin do you think i should use for glassing one layer? Can i be a little stingy with the resin when laminating to save weight since im doing it layer by layer?
I don’t know what amount you shold be using per lam, but I can say that you can do AT LEAST two layers at a time with poly. Work it in to saturate the weave, then pull it out. There should be no excess pooled resin, but no dry spots that look white either. You should hear a distinct zipper type sound as you pull the last of the excess out of the 6 oz cloth. Pulling the excess out is important for a good bond to whatever is underneath. You don’t want the cloth to “float” off of the under surface. You want it to be in direct contact, with just enough resin to “glue” it down.
ok, i think i got it wired now, heres the run down of what im going to do for the glassing. Please give any suggestions you have, or if my plan is ok let me know too. also its set in stone that im using 6oz cloth and polyester resin.
1: starting on bottom, apply cloth, resin, cloth, resin. let cure
2: top: apply cloth, resin, cloth, cloth, resin (there is no typos in this line) let cure
3:apply any art i may want (speaking of which, what kind of paint is safe for board art?)
4: gloss
Heres a pic of where i think the cloth should be when i wrap it on the rails, blue top cloth , red bottom cloth:Is this ok?
You can go ahead and lay down two layers of cloth on the bottom, then work the resin into both layers at the same time… no worries. I would cut the first bottom layer to fit just to the rail edge all the way around, and the second to lap onto the deck about an inch. Pull out the excess and let it cure.
For the deck, I’d cut two layers to drape down over the rail edge about an inch, wet it out, pull out the excess without lapping, and walk away. Trim the draped cloth overhang with a razor when nearly cured… like hard rubber. I’d cut the third deck layer to lap around to the bottom about an inch. Fair the edge of the cloth out when cured, give the whole thing a hot coat, and sand. If you don’t use surface agent in the lam resin, fairing out the edge of the cloth with a surform or little grinder will do the trick. Don’t drive yourself crazy and grind through the glass. Just take the meat of the edge off.
If you’re using paint, paint the foam and glass over it. If you’re using a decal or logo, put it under the top layer of cloth. Wet the surface where it will go, pull out the excess, place the logo, lay your top layer of cloth over it and wet out the whole thing as normal.
If you don’t want to paint directly onto the foam, you can paint onto the board after it’s been hotcoated and sanded. Just seal it with an acrylic spray and it shouldn’t rub off. Sometimes paint on the foam will absorb and you can end up with a little more weight than you wanted to.
NJ_surfer is right concerning lapping the glass. It saves a little more weight and your rails don’t need to be that strong.