gordon clark......greg loehr....burt burger

Industry Talk
1

this isn’t an easy thing to write…so bare with me. I own a med-sm polyester glassing facility in Indian Harbour

bch, fl. We do 20-30 boards a week…maybe 40 during peak time. My son laminates and installs fcs or future systems…and I finish them from there…we use silmar/suncure resin…it works well. I’ve never been on this web site, and I assure I never be back. If you want to ridicule or laugh at me…go ahead.

gordon clark is a personal friend of mine. I’ve known him since 1978…when he hired me to run the eastcoast cf warehouse…which I did until 1987…we communicate on and off as much as possible. during my experience working with him (along with my other outside sanding jobs) he taught me everything I know about running a business. He is directly responsible for my entire career (and many others like me, I’ll bet.)…I raised my family, put my kid’s thru college, and bought a house because of the industry that he made possible. I think I can say that I know him about as well anyone can. when he’s out this way, he will always stop by. gordon was out here for 3 weeks in nov…and we had a chance to talk at great length over at least 20 hours. at that time I directly questioned him about any environmental, labor, county problems…at least any serious threats. he answered all questions candidly. he had no idea what was about to happen…gordon had just completed a complete redo of many aspects of his process…including new computers, etc…at great expense…nothing new there.

an important note of intrest: gordon clark sincerely loves the sport of surfing and the surf industry in general. he feels a genuine responsibility for the well-being of all of us…believe me. he has personally contributed to every worthy organization in our industry. you wouldn’t know that because he doesn’t advertise that fact. he may be the most misunderstood person in the history of our sport. I know this is getting long…but I couldn’t look myself in the mirror if I didn’t do this…please stay with me.

greg loehr is my best friend in the world. I’ve known him since he was a kid in cocoa beach. throughout the 70’s I traveled with and shot surf pics (also worked for surfer mag) of greg…we started in the surf business at the same time at dick catri’s factory. He is without a doubt the most gifted surfer I’ve ever seen. his shaping skills are unmatched by anyone…and now he’s the talented point-man in the epoxy/eps movement. He was my best man at my wedding. greg is a great guy…like a brother.

many negative things are now going on right now. things that will change all of us in surf industry. in the last 2 days, I’ve witnessed the worst of what people can become in a crisis…threats, accusations from both sides, panic and general ignorance seem to be prevailing…a nightmare senario.

please read: both greg and gordon love our sport and industry and have only the best intentions at heart. they’re much more alike than they want to admit. they only chose a different path…and that’s ok.

Now things have changed…I’m coming to grips with that. all my friends are surf industry workers, owners, reps, etc…and I see that they’re all scared…so am I.

what’s my point??? please burt burger and greg…there are human faces out there…lives will be ruined, jobs and businesses lost…maybe mine. I’m going to try and make the changes (whatever they are) in order to survive. Burt and greg…I respect both of you…but we need not celebrate gordon’s downfall…if you do, you celebrate mine. Your cause is victorious…that should be enough.

I have a 35 year vested intrest in the continuation of my profession and sport. I want my son to inherit a future…doing what he does so well. everyone…no more threats, gossip, panic, or gloating…no more pain. I’m hurt, I’m hurt bad.

thank you,    larry pope   indialantic florida
2

i was just about to sit down and start preparing a report on what exactly it would take to even remotely be able to step in and solve part of the problem now facing the californian industry …

right now , i dont have any answers , but ive got some ideas and thats about it …

once ive finished my outline , it will go to greg and those associated with him and it will go to a few others who may be able to help …

there are alternatives , but none i can see are closer than 6 weeks away …

personally this is the worst way i could possibly have wanted it to go …

the opposistion gets taken out on a technicality and by default crew are forced to look closer at what were doing …

that sux …

i would much rather crew looked in this direction based on its merits not because they have no choice …

i cant make any promises , ive been in discussion today and ideas were thrown around …

i see 3 possible scenarios …

1 is some will look towards existing urethane sources , china ,also cobra have there own urethane facility (but would they support an industry they have been busy trying to destroy to date ??) the australian companies ,

burfords, bennets/dion, south coast , surfblanks , oceanfoam , base with puretech and pete hoskins is on the program with good urethane now known as GCS on this site …

2 look towards gregs standard techniques , but as yet no adequate infrastructure is in place , so a whole operation would need to be created or upgraded with the help of those already in this field , plus the mindset of the end user would need to be open to new concepts and be willing to except a lot of short term mistakes and a sharp learning curve …

3 cut and run now before all is lost , (if it isnt already )…

the first 2 options are still at least 6 weeks away …

and that is under the condition the aussies can actually help …

right now all australian urethane producers are at full production with summer here …

the urethane option is in the hands of those that can help …

im looking at option 2 with some ideas at this stage only …

im truly sorry about your current plight , your words put the reality to the whole saga …

please dont expect to much of anyone who could remotely help were all just individuals in the same industry …

collectively much can be achieved and if any kind of survival is to happen at all ,then now is not the time to start slapping people around …

i fully agree there , ive said my piece we all know where we stand on certain issues , now we have a challenge …

im as commited as anyone to keep domestic industry alive , even tho im just one piece of the cog …

everything is happening way to fast at the moment and the sad reality is there will be pain …

i cant make any more promises other than my energy is going towards helping to find a part of the solution …

regards

BERT

3

Larry,

I feel your pain! Let me tell you, I’ve been there and back. I’m a graphic designer and the printing industry took a huge hit, cause the China Syndrome hit us big time, undercut prices in a huge way, drove the California companies out of work and basically took over and then inched the prices back up. (I believe the Surfer’s Journal is printed in China) I’m sure others on this forum could tell you stories of how their industry was impacted by competition with a man or woman that makes less than a dollar an hour. Well, now you know who to direct your prayers to, cause it effects us all DIRECTLY.

Where your pain is coming from. Anxiety. What, how, when, where and other unanswerable questions.

Turn the churning in your gut into action. I would take a bike ride or surf in the DAWN to eat up some of that adrenaline. Contact friends that have made it through like situations and turn your anxiety into ACTION. Get some training. Go to school or take some seminars, anything to keep your mind busy and out of the same old, same old. Pull your wheels out of the rut. Turn those anxious thoughts into positive ideas. Go surfing with your son, and give him a big hug. Take your dog for a walk and REALLY look at the scenery. Don’t be afraid to seek the help of a psychologist, I did. We can fucking do this, and make it through, no way we’re not going to survive.

WE must reinvent this industry. Get involved, have Greg put on a seminar in your area. Now is our chance!

Let’s get busy…

David

4

Hey Mr. Pope, i hope you get back to this… this is Danny Nichols… i started making surfboards in Titusville in 1969 at my mom’s chicken farm, moved to New Smyrna Beach in 71, my brother Dave bought my shop stuff in 73 when i moved to Hawaii… been here since on the north shore…i liked the post that said in chinese the word for a bad event is two words combined, danger and oppertunity… i was at fiberglass hawaii yesterday and Ted wilson was on the phone to someone , i don’t know who, and the guy was saying he wass going to ramp up his foam factory from 200 blanks deliverable a week to 800 per week… we live in a great country… capitalism… gets a bad rap but there’s lots of businessmen out there right now that are drooling… for the giant hole left by our “good friends at the epa”… ( i think that they will eventually tell us how many squares of paper to be wiping our buts with, with fines inforced somehow)I have always appreciated Clark foam, my dear friend Bosco, you must haave met was the dealer here in th e70’s, he always ate cookies on our back porch that my wife made…i’m empty, but very optimistic, i’ve always had a stupid optimism;, things have changed not stopped!!! lets go! our prayers are with Mr Clark and everyone effected!, can you spare some time on the north shore?, you must have contacts here, but email me and you can stay in the little shack that i have next to my glassing room… would love to meet you ! danny

5 
Howzit dnick, Read the artical in the Orange Couty Register, the EPA and the fire dept. did not shut Claark down, he did it his self and there is another post that shows he had previously infomed a labor dept that he would be shutting down by Feb 3. Sounds more like Clark just decided to cut and run instead of phasing out.Aloha,Kokua
6

Thanks Larry and Bert.

We’re now on day three since the bomb was dropped. I hope we’ve all had a chance to grieve, mourn, whatever.This is certainly a bad time for everyone and the best way for us to survive will be working together.

So now it’s time to get on with where we go from here. The state of the industry in the US is that PU/PE is over. I’ve had a chance to talk with many of the urethane blank manufacturers worldwide and simply put they won’t fill Clarks shoes. Not even close at least for the foreseeable future. Aus. has effectively cut exporting of foam and the foam they will export will probably be in the form of finished boards. China’s capacity isn’t even enough for their production, Europe’s production is small and Clark was the major supplier there. Brazil and South Africa don’t have nearly the capacity to export. Domestic blank manufacture is 5% of what it was last Friday. Guy’s, were on our own. This leaves us with EPS/Epoxy. For those who loved urethane and Clark I’m truly sorry that this has come to pass. You may think that I’m rejoicing in the streets but frankly this is the most daunting thing that’s ever landed in my lap. It appears I now go from revolutionary to leader in one day. Everything I’ve ever done and learned in my life I will now need. This is the scariest scenario you could ever imagine. And yet I do love a challenge.

The state of US board building today is shambles and it will take all of our best efforts to build a new future from what is left. So here’s where I’ll start.

Foam

EPS foam is widely available through EPS expanders nation wide. These plants are HUGE and produce more foam in a week than Clark produced his entire career. There will NEVER be a shortage of foam. They may occasionally run out of a density for a week or so but in the end they can bury all of us in piles of foam blocks.

For those who love the ride of urethane, there are new densities available in just the last month (2.5 same as superlight and 3.0 same as green) which will mimic urethane better than anything that the EPS block makers have had in the past.

There are also some specialty foam makers who might now see the sense in building blanks. They can produce blanks about one per minute that have very good properties out of steel molds. Jim Richardson in HI already has some of this being produced.

For those who want to buy blanks which are ready to shape, Segway Composites and Hydrofoam in CA, Craig Chafin and S-Foam in TX , RR, Coda Core and Davo in FL, Natural Art Cape Hatteras in NC, Fly in NJ, Shuler Systems in OR all make blanks. There are perhaps also others and I’m sure there will be more in the coming months.

Resin

The availability of epoxy resin is something I’ve spent the last two days addressing. Two years ago I moved to Tucson AZ. I moved here for many reasons but one was to improve my capacity and to begin marketing to the west coast and HI. In the two years since the move I have established good business ties with some really great people and managed to get some product out there into the public. The plant I moved to in Tucson is a large polymer plant, PCI. They produce many polymers for numerous real world industries all over the world. Their best known product to consumers is the paper coatings for ink jet print paper. The glossy stuff. My situation here is that I lease space and time on their equipment for the production of RR materials. The capacity here is vastly larger than the entire surfboard industry could EVER need. Having said that there isn’t much resin in the pipeline right now. It will take a few weeks to ramp this up but I suspect that we should be looking pretty good by January. What I need to find out from you guys is what you think you’ll need. The capacity is there, so no need to panic buy or hoard. This will only tie up money your going to need. There is one issue we will have in supply and that is we will not be able to finance this. This challenge will take every dime we have to pull off so we will be forced to sell on COD terms only. We can take credit cards and this is true with our distributors as well.

Distribution

Our distributors will be very important in all this. These are a bunch of really great guys who have helped me over the years to get where we are today. I’m going to be depending on them and I’m sure they will come through. The distributors here in the US are:

Graphite Master - LA CA

Fiberglass Florida - Rockledge FL

Natural Art Hatteras - Hatteras NC

Shuler Systems - Seaside OR

Craig Chafin - Freeport TX

Jason Troy - Oahu

Topperboards - Kauai

Foam, Fins and Fiberglass - Ventura CA

Fiberglass Santa Cruz - Santa Cruz CA

I want you all to know that we are behind you guys all the way. The tech we have is proven over many years and the knowledge to pull this together is right here on Sways (thanks Mike) By the way, I think we should all sit down today and write this guy a check.

It too bad that this unfortunate turn of events happened during Christmas season but in some ways the timing is about as good as we could have hoped for. We all have a chance to relax, retool, retrofit, repair and prepare for the selling season next summer (Good thing this didn’t happen in May).

I hope you all see some bright spots in all of this, there are some. Custom surfboards will become just a bit harder to get so those that make the transition stand to make the best money they’ve made in many years. This softness of supply will make the US custom board what it should be, the most sought after piece of personal surfing equipment you can buy. For the first time since the 60’s surfboard builders will be paid what their worth. The future in terms of environment is now assured. We will no longer have to worry about the EPA doing to any one of us what they just did to Clark.

In closing I wish nothing but the best for everyone. I look at this as an opportunity for the entire industry to do better. Lets face it in many ways it wasn’t so hot the way it was. We have a chance to reinvent our businesses and our lives and hopefully make them better.

7

Hey Kokua, i’m not quite ready to believe what a newspaper says this morning… i talked to Ted Wilson yesterday and he was speaking to Gordon… they’ve known each other for quite some time,i’m not ready to see this as a well orchestrated plot by the Clarks…let’s keep watching and moving forward.!.danny

8

Gordon Clark sent out and extensive fax to his associates. It’s posted on the Harbour surfboards bulletin board. http://www.harboursurfboards.com/surftalk.html It’s posted under “Clark Foam shutdown, Rumor?” go to the last page and read the post titled The FAX.

The FAX goes pretty far to illustrate how much he’s gone through, is going through, and is facing. Read that, then add it to the testimony of Mr. Pope here. Then maybe your opinion won’t continue to be so harsh.

9 
Howzit dnick, Just got back from talking to Bob Brown the original and long time owner of Russel Surfboards in NewPort beach. He has already secured blanks from Walker so he will be OK, but he said that there was a long line at the front door of people trying to get blanks and their chances are almost nil. The thing I'm wondering about is the letter Clark wrote to some labor agency a while back informing them he would be closing down by Feb 3.2006.It seems this letter was written some time before monday which means Grubby had it in mind to close already. Another thing is in his fax he says he's might be facing fines and penalties, well think about it that alot of companies could be facing the same thing but that doesn't mean they have been cited already and the fines are in affect now. What Bob said also is who's to say that Clark won't reopen if the EPA didn't shut him down. The other thing I wonder about is if the EPA and the fire Dept did shut him down then why say they didn't, They don't have to answer to anybody and by shutting down Clark that would be a good warning to other companies that things are going to change. I think we all need to kick back and let the dust settle. I also think that Greg L. is jumping the gun by saying the poly boards are a dying business. I wonder how poly boards are out there for every epoxy boards out there, Maybe 10 to 1 if not more, which means the dead out number the living. Another thing,if the EPA closed down Clark he could post his foam formular for the public and really screw with the EPA. If he's out of business then why keep it a secret, who cares who uses it as long as they supply quality blanks. The alternative for me is to get back into repairs since there will be a lot of that going on and the money is better also.Aloha,Kokua

P.S. Bob left for the mainland today and he is going to find out exactly what is going on and let me know.

10

Hey Kokua, hanalei must be beautiful this time of year, we won the sailboat race tonight… i jumped in the water and scrubbed the barnicales off the keel… i love sailing!.. have you put in your want list to fiberglass hawaii for the remaining clark blanks that are left here on oahu… eveeryone is suppossed to make a list of blanks that they like and send it to Ted , and monday they’ll pass out blanks in a very controlled way at the warehouse in wahiawa… see ya sometime… danny

11

Howzit dnick, As a glasser I only shape for myself or family. But as a glasser there won’t be much to glass if the shapers don’t have blanks. I will pass the info on to my shapers about Ted and good for him he’s always taken good care of me. Sounds like you need to be at the factory to get your blanks or is there going to be shipping to the outer islands. For the last few years we have had a shaper here that brings in containers of blanks to fill our needs and Clark was glad he did since it took some of the pressure off the warehouse on Oahu. He supposedly has his last container on the way and has been limiting the blanks he has now to about 5 a customer. What about the rumor that Ted will be bring in Bennet blanks and storing them at the clark warehouse, any truth in this. I got an email this morning from a person who is willing to supply blanks to me. I have been asked to not divulge his name and will do as he asked.Aloha,Kokua

12

Kokua, i just got back from seeing Ted, he asked me if i ever considered shaping styrofoam… didn’t like hearing that… nothing has been done concrete that i know of…just called the clark foam factory in cali, told them to thank Gordon and everybody there for what they’ve done for me in the last 35 years and let me know if i can help with anything…i’m not sure if you need to be at the warehouse in wahiawa monday morning or not… they said this morning that they’ll try not to let anyone hoard, but distrubute the remaining foam in somekind of orderly fashion…yesterday , Dutch at FGH said that if anything they will be bringing foam from anyone that they can get it from… The guy at fiberglass hawaii that’s sort of in charge of the foam dividing is Louis, i think…

Maybe you can distribute foam for your connection?.. danny

13

Hey again Kokua, i have to edit my reply, the shapers need to get on a list that Fiberglass Hawaii is making of who would like what blanks… that determination will be left up to people in smoke filled rooms, who gets what, then everyone will be notified and the blanks will be distributed in an orderly manner, not on monday like i said before… just talked to Dutch again… danny