Just started my GreenBoard, BioFoam blank from homeblown, just did the pre-shaping today.
Just cut the outline and rasped back to the line, feels different-very different from PU foam, even though its 50% MDF.
No shots as yet, will post when I get the film developed, also did not get any electronic footage, but did get some super8 (have 3 cassettes left) - will develop and tranfer when I win the lottery.
Moving to a proper shapers bay on the 23rd so hope to get some electronic footage there - then post here.
Glassing will be done with bio-resin from sustainable composites UK, Leashplug is cornstarch and cloth will be bamboo - both from Brian at Greenlight Pa.
think its the first of this type in Europe.
Its going to be a 7’2 maybe Magic Carpet or Bonzer or Hybryd of the two, probably go with the Bonzer bottom.
I want it to be a good all-rounder, but also a technology demonstrator - wont be using a vaccum bag, so if we can do a greenboard, any backyard shaper can.
I want to put in a longboard central fin with quad side fins- 4WFS if I can get some here.
This sounds like a fun project, I’m looking forward to seeing your pics. Perhaps the greenlight guys, or Greg Loehr will pick up on this thread and advise you about your resin issues. It was always my impression that when going with natural fibers, epoxy was the only way to go for a resin choice. When I was working with hemp, this was GL’s recommendation. More specifically, he said that with hemp you needed to use a flexible epoxy. Otherwise, the elongation of the fiber in tension was more that what the resin could handle, and you’d get cracking over time.
just thought i’d let u know, we are in the very early stages of looking into a biodegradable material to add to our extensive fin range, for the 4 way fin system: www.4wfs.com
We have not published any info on it yet, but subject to demand we would like to release it during 2008.
A few years ago I did some research into the materials, wanting to make a fully compostable board. While I realize that surfboards (ultimately) make up a tiny fraction of the world’s garbage, I wanted to do it as a statement, as a way to call attention to these issues.
More research, though, demonstrated is that these materials are actually more energy-intensive to produce than petroleum based plastics, and require huge tracts of arable land (and fertilizers, pesticides and gen-mod crops), so I decided to focus on building boards that will last a while.
Our bamboo fiberglass is UV resistant, so the bio-resin from Sustainable Composites might not cure on the bamboo. Make sure you do a small test panel first.
We use Resin Research 2000 and 2020 ~ both work perfectly with the bamboo fiber.
Let me know if you have any questions on bamboo stretch glassing techniques. Glad to help.
just thought i’d let u know, we are in the very early stages of looking into a biodegradable material to add to our extensive fin range, for the 4 way fin system: www.4wfs.com
We have not published any info on it yet, but subject to demand we would like to release it during 2008.
cheers
dean
My question is…if biodegradable is so important to you…why add it to your extensive range? Why not just change all of the extensive range to biodegradable? Otherwise…your making no statement at all. Only another sales pitch.
Nothing personal, but I think it’s a legitimate question. Bio degradable in surfboards fins is a non issue with me, so I have no personal interest one way or the other, but seems to me if you find that important, the ultimate statement would be made by a total switch.
It would be the same as asking why surfers don’t swith to adaptable/adjustable fin systems,
they ARE better, but it’s personal choice that motivates a move from one to the other.
It might be a non-issue for you, but there are those out their looking for alternatives that can contribute to the environment in any positive form.
It’s not a sales pitch, its and offering to the market, if the market wants it we ARE prepared to offer it, a lot more than any other fin company is prepared currently to look at, so if it comes across as a sales pitch to you, then so be it.
For those who really want it, we are looking into it, whether the types of material can perform as well as the current materials we use, only time will tell.
Ps: the issue with most of these bio-materials is that they perform differently under extreme temp requiring potentially extensive mould changes, so if u have a spare $100 000.00 for us to change all our moulds, feel free to contact me, otherwise we are looking at setting aside one mould to start the process.
It’s nothing personal, just a legitimate statement…
It would be the same as asking why surfers don’t swith to adaptable/adjustable fin systems,
they ARE better, but it’s personal choice that motivates a move from one to the other.
It might be a non-issue for you, but there are those out their looking for alternatives that can contribute to the environment in any positive form.
It’s not a sales pitch, its and offering to the market, if the market wants it we ARE prepared to offer it, a lot more than any other fin company is prepared currently to look at, so if it comes across as a sales pitch to you, then so be it.
For those who really want it, we are looking into it, whether the types of material can perform as well as the current materials we use, only time will tell.
Ps: the issue with most of these bio-materials is that they perform differently under extreme temp requiring potentially extensive mould changes, so if u have a spare $100 000.00 for us to change all our moulds, feel free to contact me, otherwise we are looking at setting aside one mould to start the process.
It’s nothing personal, just a legitimate statement…
Regards
Dean
I have no problem with sales pitches BTW. It’s part of doing business. Using the term Green today is often like using the term Godly…it’s vague. If you personally believe Green is best…I think the best statement would be to spend the money or say your waiting to spend the money to make the switch over complete.
I see it as a sales pitch because you said you were adding it to your " extensive line of fins ".
You cleared it up for me that your just attemtping to accomodate those of your customers who actually want and believe in Green fins rather than making a company statment. No problem. Thats fair.
The reason I think it’s pointless is that if 75% of your fins are not green and 95% of everyone else’s fins are not green…then the little 25% or 5% makes no difference at all…so why use it other than a sales pitch?
I don’t think it’s quite like using adjustable fins either. The fins make a statement of performance enhancment. The other does nothing but give someone a warm fuzzy.
But to say it’s pointless would be the same as saying don’t attempt to recycle glass or plastic (if everyone’s not doing it),
if u can do it and it makes a 5% difference now, then next 10 % next year and the following 25%… it does make a difference, it has to start somehwere, and frankly that’s my opinion!
Lets say we have different opinions on the contributions and efforts made to try and introduce alternative materials to the surf industry.
The mechanism that supports fins is the key to unlocking a board’s potential, adjustability by far increases the scope and spectrum of a board’s performance, far from just being warm and fuzzy, i refer to it as complete stoke!
Every surfer surfs differently, Every surfboard made is different (even today with the shaping machines and even the moudled technologies, there are elements of shrinkage/distortions that make no 2 boards exactly the same) if they were then pros would have quivers of majic boards to ride, the stark reality is they’re lucky if they have one! Adjustability (not just 4 ways) unlocks that potential in every board so that every surfer can benefit.
4ways is not claiming to be a eco fin system, it merely is providing those who feel it’s worthwhile, the opportunity in the future to incorporate with their newer more “green” boards, and yes for those customers/shapers/manufacturers that may be a sales pitch, i can’t help that.
“our remarkable patent pending eco-composite has been specifically engineered to provide the perfect balance of strength and flex with excellent energy retention.”
Might be worth getting in touch with them to see how open they are to liscensing their materials if it fits your needs.
I agree with your viewpoint though, if you can make a 5% difference through less harmful materials, that’s better than making no difference at all.
edit: SimonJ, I’ve been riding a Biofoam board for about 6 months now. I’ve been really impressed with the overall durability and performance (http://www.phoresia.org/?p=209) with a 6/6/6 RR epoxy glassjob. Next board I’m going to go 4/4/6 to lighten it up a bit and due to the impressive resistance to deck dents the current board has shown. A few other test boards have shown similar results with lighter glass jobs.
I also agree in attempting to make some difference, no matter how small…
It’s amazing how easy people make things out to be, and it’s equally amazing how they love telling us what we should be doing and how to do it!
DOING IT…is often a lot trickier to implement.
We just want to look seriously into starting this process and make people know that we can and are working on this if they also want to make a difference.
Dean, these fins, if they are biodegradable, how long is the degradation period? I would be worried the fin would degrade within the useful lifespan!! Like a guaranteed snap-off waiting for you? Or is the degradation likely to take more than the useful lifespan?
Is it such a biggie though? I mean the broken fin just becomes a rock on the bottom of the sea, doesn’t leach any chemicals into the ocean right? Cured polyester is chemically inert afaik.
We're in the process of sourcing the correct material from 2 sources we have found,
we hope to do various mould tests over the next few months to test flex of the materials etc.
But at this stage it was positive knowing that these materials are starting to become available,
whether they stand the test of time...so to speak.... we'll only know in a few months after the tests have been done...
At the end of the day, we can spend money and test the viability and practicality of using bi-degradable materials but if they don't stand up to surfing's performance criteria it will never take off.
hope this clarifies where we at with the program...
Trying a different, two part bioresin