Heard say for years that that Greenough “blades” were being stealthed around Santa Barbara/The Ranch, CA and about Byron Bay in OZ. As 9"+ long singles on Mals and sub-6" small thruster clusters and 2+1’ers on shorter sticks. Praise and glory stories abound. Anyone here have hands-on experience regarding the old Greenough “Stage 4” type of fins and latter more refined Greenough paddle fins? Thanks.
Heard say for years that that Greenough “blades” were being > stealthed around Santa Barbara/The Ranch, CA and about Byron Bay in OZ. As > 9"+ long singles on Mals and sub-6" small thruster clusters and > 2+1’ers on shorter sticks. Praise and glory stories abound.>>> Anyone here have hands-on experience regarding the old Greenough > “Stage 4” type of fins and latter more refined Greenough paddle > fins? Thanks. I used an early Greenough graphite paddle fin about 12 years ago, and I didn’t like it. The bank-to-release ratio (how far the board would rotate in a turn relative to how for over it was banked in that turn) was really odd, (it went over easily, then tracked) and I couldn’t get the large tip to drive the board. This is contrary to what others say, so I may be way off on this. It just wasn’t for me. On the other hand, the Greenough Stage 4 is, in my opinion, the best shortboard single fin design ever concieved. It generates the most power relative to the least amount of drag, and after 30 plus years of modifying it (just for fun), it still works best as it was originally concieved…with this qualifier: the original molded Stage 4 WAVE fin was made 5/8" thick so the plastic material would be stiff enough. That thickness is way too full for a fin with a small base (5"). This is why the original molded versionsnever caught on. If you make one out of a 3/8" fiberglass panel, and keep the high point of the foil well forward, it is an absolute ripper. I’ll post some station measurement of the outline later.
On the other hand, the Greenough Stage 4 is, in my opinion, the best > shortboard single fin design ever concieved. http://www.trueames.com/greenough.htm 4A or 4C? Excuse my ignorance of this topic as I’m a complete novice on fins and wasn’t around when these came through.
http://www.trueames.com/greenough.htm>>> 4A or 4C? Excuse my ignorance of this topic as I’m a complete novice on > fins and wasn’t around when these came through. The Stage 4 is neither the True Aimes 4A or 4C. No one makes the template from 1970. I have tried to post the coordinates to that template above, but can’t get it to be legible.
The Stage 4 is neither the True Aimes 4A or 4C. No one makes the template > from 1970. I have tried to post the coordinates to that template above, > but can’t get it to be legible. Paul- Would you care to discuss your flex tip and whale tail fin produced by TA? I saw them here: http://www.surfingsports.com/trueames_surf.asp Were either of these designed specifically to work on hulls? I saw the whale tail on Spence’s spoon and wondered if either might work well on a 9’4 I have with bottom/rails a lot like Sam I think. Bottom flat down the center third along the stringer then rolls to fairly pinched and rounded rails the entire length of the board. My board has a bit more nose and tail rocker than the spoons I think, and a square tail. I’m stoked that you are posting here! Thanks for all the great info. Ride on, Dan
The Stage 4 is neither the True Aimes 4A or 4C. No one makes the template > from 1970. I have tried to post the coordinates to that template above, > but can’t get it to be legible. paul,are you referring to the same outline of fin in the w.a.v.e.set ad [greenough IV] seen in surfer mag vol.10 no.4 ? just curious thanks.
I don’t know the photo you are referencing specifically, but I am referring to the WAVE SET Stage IV.
Paul->>> Would you care to discuss your flex tip and whale tail fin produced by TA? > I saw them here: http://www.surfingsports.com/trueames_surf.asp>>> Were either of these designed specifically to work on hulls? I saw the > whale tail on Spence’s spoon and wondered if either might work well on a > 9’4 I have with bottom/rails a lot like Sam I think. Bottom flat down the > center third along the stringer then rolls to fairly pinched and rounded > rails the entire length of the board. My board has a bit more nose and > tail rocker than the spoons I think, and a square tail. I’m stoked that > you are posting here! Thanks for all the great info.>>> Ride on, Dan Hi Dan, The flex tip was designed as a basic 9" hull fin. I have no knowledge or control over how they are foiled, so I can’t really say much more than that. It’s not a critical design, so I’m sure they work pretty well. The Whale Tail fin that Spence uses is out of a 1/2" thick panel, which is necessary for the design to work as intended. The Aimes WT is made out of 3/8" thick panel, so it is a little stiff turning. However, since your board has a bit more rocker than Spence’s, a stock WT might be fine. Only personal use can tell.
I don’t know the photo you are referencing specifically, but I am > referring to the WAVE SET Stage IV. Hey Paul, How close is the Stage IV template to a Liddle flex? Is it similar but a little more full at the base and through the middle? Does the tip taper pretty thin? Is it as vertical? I sure would like to have a template to work from. The 4A and the 4C both make sense to me though I’ve never surfed either. I think fins with this kind of a profile are among the very fastest. What about laying one of these Stage IV puppies up with epoxy fiber/glass? I think You could get a nice thin fin with a round leading edge and not have too much flex. Put a little carbon fiber in the center of it and it’d stiffin it right up. I made a couple of symmetrically foiled rail fins (no carbon fiber just 6oz. epoxy)like this – lost one on the rock unfortunately and have to make another – they seemed to have a lot of potential. I couldn’t believe how slippery the board felt going in a straigh line. I’d like to send you a photo of the set up to your email address and get your impressions. I’ve got to find time to replace that fin! Mahalo, Rich
Hey Paul, How close is the Stage IV template to a Liddle flex? Is it > similar but a little more full at the base and through the middle? Does > the tip taper pretty thin? Is it as vertical? I sure would like to have a > template to work from. The 4A and the 4C both make sense to me though I’ve > never surfed either. I think fins with this kind of a profile are among > the very fastest. What about laying one of these Stage IV puppies up with > epoxy fiber/glass? I think You could get a nice thin fin with a round > leading edge and not have too much flex. Put a little carbon fiber in the > center of it and it’d stiffin it right up. I made a couple of > symmetrically foiled rail fins (no carbon fiber just 6oz. epoxy)like this > – lost one on the rock unfortunately and have to make another – they > seemed to have a lot of potential. I couldn’t believe how slippery the > board felt going in a straigh line. I’d like to send you a photo of the > set up to your email address and get your impressions. I’ve got to find > time to replace that fin!>>> Mahalo, Rich The L-flex is similar, but not identical. For all intents and purposes, Greg’s fin outline is fine. Using other mmaterials and flex patterns is really a good idea with this particlular outline concept, because it is so skinny, it doesn’t rely on flex to work, like the older, wider outlines. You have pics?? Great! I’ll send you the uncluttered coordinates for a Stage 4. You can lay it out in a few minutes and get an accurate idea of what it is.
The L-flex is similar, but not identical. For all intents and purposes, > Greg’s fin outline is fine. Using other mmaterials and flex patterns is > really a good idea with this particlular outline concept, because it is so > skinny, it doesn’t rely on flex to work, like the older, wider outlines.>>> You have pics?? Great! >>> I’ll send you the uncluttered coordinates for a Stage 4. You can lay it > out in a few minutes and get an accurate idea of what it is. PG made me a “correct” stage 4 recently.I put it in a 9’ hull-a board in which was sporting a tru-ames 9" l-flex.the fins are pretyy close in template, but the foil is way different.(the stage 4 does have less base area)Anyway,the difference in performance was really amazing.the power that little stage 4 fin generated was incredible.Yes, the l-flex and “real” Liddle fins are flexible and fast, but this stage 4 was that and more!I honestly couldn’t believe the performance difference.In addition to being powerful, it was faster and turned easier. the really neat thing was that it maintained it’s speed/power thru the turns, unlike the l-flex for example, which turns fast, then kinda goes dead before you load it up for the next direction.The stage 4 just simply maintains that speed constantly, and really blasts out of turns.If you can get PG to make you one, it’s worth the money.Oh yeah, I sent that fin to Liddle to try on his Hanalei board and he was stoked!
PG made me a “correct” stage 4 recently.I put it in a 9’ hull-a > board in which was sporting a tru-ames 9" l-flex.the fins are pretyy > close in template, but the foil is way different.(the stage 4 does have > less base area)Anyway,the difference in performance was really amazing.the > power that little stage 4 fin generated was incredible.Yes, the l-flex and > “real” Liddle fins are flexible and fast, but this stage 4 was > that and more!I honestly couldn’t believe the performance difference.In > addition to being powerful, it was faster and turned easier. the really > neat thing was that it maintained it’s speed/power thru the turns, unlike > the l-flex for example, which turns fast, then kinda goes dead before you > load it up for the next direction.The stage 4 just simply maintains that > speed constantly, and really blasts out of turns.If you can get PG to make > you one, it’s worth the money.Oh yeah, I sent that fin to Liddle to try on > his Hanalei board and he was stoked! Paul, Sign me up for a Stage 4. Would that be a good fin for the “Magic Sam” which I still have not christened? I think I would like to try the Whale Tale in El Paipo Grande. I hereby order two fins if you can breakaway from your generous posting here at Swaylocks. Thanks, Proneman
Paul,>>> Sign me up for a Stage 4. Would that be a good fin for the “Magic > Sam” which I still have not christened? PM, The Stage 4 really isn’t that good of a longboard fin. It turns great and is pretty fast, but you can’t get forward to trim through small sections. Kind of frustrating.
PM,>>> The Stage 4 really isn’t that good of a longboard fin. It turns great and > is pretty fast, but you can’t get forward to trim through small sections. > Kind of frustrating. PM-Pg is right.the stage 4 is for the stubbies.I believe it will be perfect for my 8’8" semi gun as well.even though the board i use it in is 9’, it’s not a "longboard"rather, it is a 7’ roundtail stub stretched out to 9’and blade thin.it surfs like a 7 footer but has that nice comfort of paddle-ability in order to handle the increasing crowds on their 10’ noseriders.I am sure you have a board that a stage 4 would work in.eg, the Dr. Kervorkian!?
PM-Pg is right.the stage 4 is for the stubbies.I believe it will be > perfect for my 8’8" semi gun as well.even though the board i use it > in is 9’, it’s not a "longboard"rather, it is a 7’ roundtail > stub stretched out to 9’and blade thin.it surfs like a 7 footer but has > that nice comfort of paddle-ability in order to handle the increasing > crowds on their 10’ noseriders.I am sure you have a board that a stage 4 > would work in.eg, the Dr. Kervorkian!? Matt, thanks for the advice on the stage 4! I’m planning on a lot of water time this spring on the Dr. K. I have never really took on learning to ride it in the manner that it was designed for. Suicide is not an option! I’m heading to points north for the -tide. Maybe I’ll see ya. Proneman
Matt, thanks for the advice on the stage 4! I’m planning on a lot of water > time this spring on the Dr. K. I have never really took on learning to > ride it in the manner that it was designed for. Suicide is not an option!>>> I’m heading to points north for the -tide. Maybe I’ll see ya.>>> Proneman pm, would you mind explaining the Dr. Kervorkian?
Matt, thanks for the advice on the stage 4! I’m planning on a lot of water > time this spring on the Dr. K. I have never really took on learning to > ride it in the manner that it was designed for. Suicide is not an option!>>> I’m heading to points north for the -tide. Maybe I’ll see ya.>>> Proneman the Dr. K is one scary ride-that thing hauls ass!!it may cause suicide 'cause if you ride it too much you’ll get hooked on it then will never be able to duplicate that performance, thus causing depression and suicidal tendencies.that’s why, after one session, I was glad to see it go away!!!Does it still reside way down south??Maybe I’ll see you down there this spring…
pm, would you mind explaining the Dr. Kervorkian? hey Flo, how’s it going??PG made Dr.K a few years ago.It is a 7’ roundtail stub stretched to 8’8" with a really fast rocker template.That’s the basics, perhaps PG or PM can give you more details.I had one session on it and blew my mind.Possibly the fastest board I’ve ridden-almost too fast, because executing a quick turn to perhaps avoid somebody paddling out or dropping in is just not an option-they will get steamrolled-the thing is, you quickly get addicted to the speed of the thing, but you know it can only be safely ridden in empty point surf, so you just put it away and try to forget about it…
Kervorkian sat dormant in a 10’3", and revealed himself slowly over the course of about 3 years.>>> pm, would you mind explaining the Dr. Kervorkian? 