http://www.swellnet.com.au/news/2639-mark-kelly-of-gsi-on-the-collapse-of-base
Great read but dont miss the 196 comments underneath where Mark answers lots of questions about running his business.
Mark has nailed a large part of the surfboard market [beginners and novices] that don’t have capability or understanding to communicate with a local custom board builder because of there surfing inexperience they probably feel out of place and intimidated asking for a board that is easy to ride and looks trendy when you walk along the beach. or on the car roof.
And you don’t consider GSI’s " paddle like a longboard, but surfs like a short board, " Hype? LOL. The GSI business model is the same as the clothing hypesters. Place it and chase it. Some of us have been around to remember the old FCS also and remember what that was like… This one is easy to predict as there is a line casaulties strewn in the wake.
Mark has and is making money because of one simple fact!
The beginner surfer is not interested in the mystique and hype and bravado that surrounds surfing and Marks business model allows beginners to steer around it.
My daughter graduated from college with a degree in international business. I remember telling her that it was likely going to be a secure future for her. I've also suggested that she learn Chinese as a second language.
Warren Buffett (famous rich guy investor type) has said something to the effect that domestic labor is nothing worth protecting... there are simply too many foreign labor sources that can do most anything we can, do it just as well, and most definitely do it cheaper.
Any businessman can see where this is heading. I.E. shove 'soul' and pixie dust.... show me the money.
Very likely for awhile longer, but I think the entire industry is very close to complete implosion. It’s all me too, been there, done that, more of the same. I see it shrinking quite a bit over the next five years. There is a major event coming also. One just as large as Clark closing. An event that sadly has already started. That event is the retirement or death of the old masters who are now in the fifties, sixties and etc. There is literally no one that has seen what they have seen, learned to shape in the atmosphere they learned to shape and etc. There is going to be a huge vacume when half of them are gone. I’m not saying there are not young builders with talent, but the older guys learned to do it all out of blobs of foam when quality counted and there were serious reputations to contend with. My generation is the last generation to see that. Many of us were groms when these men were in the prime of their influence. Many are building their codas right now. That event will even affect the mass producers who suck of the lifestyle and over all atmosphere created by them.
OK, let me say up front that I'm a backyarder. I don't know if I'm part of the "backyard industry" by this guy's definition, because I don't sell my boards, its just a hobby for me, although I don't consider it a hobby, I consider it a passion and an art form.
Anyway, out of boredom, I read this interview. It almost made me puke, this guy sounds so full of himself. Help me out here - is it just me? Am I over-reacting?
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"I personally think that the whole backyard industry is the worst part of the industry. They don't put too much in but they tend to copy everyones boards. They do a lot of stuff that is undermining the core market." - M. Kelly
...nothing like respecting your roots, eh?
Be interesting to know what "facts" he could produce to back up that assertion. A huge part of the history of the evolution of the surfboard is built on the "backyard industry". Its only in the recent history of the surfboard that giant corporate interests have gotten involved. Before that, it was always a cottage industry.
And he talks about "undermining the core market". What does that even mean?
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and then there's this:
SN: Can I just interject, one of the claims is that the cottage industry leads the way in surfboard innovation. Would you say that's a false perception?
MK: Yeah, I would. I think if you asked all the domestic manufacturers to pool the amount of money they spend on R&D we wouldn't have a big day at the pub.
The custom surfboard will always be around. I don't agree that it is the leading edge of innovation because a lot of domestic manufacturers don't have the time or money to do R&D, and nor are they that way inclined. A lot of them just follow someone else's shapes.
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So, surfboard innovation is measured in money? In money? Sorry I had to say it twice, it just struck me as such typical corporate idiocy: We the big company with the big bucks are the innovators, because we spend big bucks on R&D. The little guys don't have our budget, so therefore, their contribution to the evolution of the surfboard is negligable. You know, "backyarders" like Simmons, Greenough, Malcolm and Duncan, etc, they had nothing to do with the progression of the modern surfboard.
And BTW, how many GSI boards are "the leading edge of innovation"?? A company that targets beginners because there's more of them? He says his company spends a half million dollars a year on innovation, to produce innovative shapes like this: (his example)
And he says "custom surfboards" are 'just following someone else's shape'? So, are we then to understand that each GSI is an original design, its not like they're following someone else's shape, eh?
And he brags that all his boards are made in Asia and "always will be". He's proud of it. Does he care anything at all about supporting local handcrafted grassroots design and innovation? Doesn't sound like it to me.
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Am I off base in saying this guy sounds more like a corporate mouthpiece than a real surfer / shaper / designer?
They asked him: SN: Where did BASE go wrong?
Here's his insightful summary: They had a lot of big names at BASE but one of their problems was all those names targeted the same consumer.
That's it. Period. That's the full extent of his professional assessment of what went wrong at BASE.
I didn't gain one iota of insight into BASE's demise from that interview, I seriously doubt this guy has anything to offer on that subject. Be far more interesting if one of the BASE guys wrote a 'tell-all' book, that I'd enjoy, and probably learn something useful from.
I don't think anybody has copied more designs and templates from others than Global Surf Industries. Nothing they have put out there is original.
and there demise would be well received
**cheers huie
**
I recall asking some questions of Mark in the comments section below the interview and watched the side-stepping worthy of a politician.
What a surfboard manufacturing business model: employing no shapers, glassers or sanders. Owning no tools of the trade.
Simply buying raw materials in bulk and having it delivered to locally owned and staffed factories in various countries in Sth East Asia/Asia where the factory turns out the board.
Then have it shipped around the globe to surfshops.
Not one of the GSI employees working out of their homes has to as much as ever lay a finger on any of the surfboards (or materials used to produce them) they sell throughout the process.
Yeah, funny how he criticizes the "backyarders", then says that he and all his staff work out of their homes, someone nailed him on that in the comments LOL.
You can count on a Swaylockian.
Nothing put out anywhere is original. In today’s world. It’s pretty much all copies. I read the comments and the article. I have been an outspoken critic of that side of the industry. Mostly because of the ridiculous politics they play on who they will deal with and some of the plain dishonest junk put out in ads and etc. Just like most of the clothing companies. However…Kelly simply out foxed some of the big boys like Merrick, Rusty and Lost and a few others who thought they had the market cornered on cool. To me if you enter this industry with the idea of making money and providing for you family then your a fool to worry about cool. Most of the so called cool cats arn’t so cool either.
Like I have said for a long time. There is 20% or so of this industry that makes it worth being around. The rest is hog wash for the most part. I have actually gained a bit of respect for Mark for hanging in there and making his deal work. He provides a service that others were not doing a good job servicing and he gained his market. I had one famous shaper tell me if all he wanted to do was ride a stock thruster or stock long board…he wouldn’t even shape one, but would buy one of the cheap ones like Mark is selling. Ride it until it fell apart and buy another one.
I lost the idea that there is magic in old hand shapes awhile ago. I see these folks fawning over old boards and pretending there is some pixie dust sprinkled on them and always get amused. There are even blogs dedicated to such stuff. While I appreciate underrated, forgotten and etc old designs that are funcitonal put back into modern surfing…I have traded in so many old surfboards over the years and had them in my posession from Da Cat’s to D.N. Nose riders from the early sixties and so many form the 70’s and 80’s I have lost count. all any one of them represent to me today is and old surfboard and nothing more. Things that if they are not ridden do nothing but take up space. Don’t get me wrong. I have a healthy appreciation for past and present craftsmen and the unique personalities…but for me…it’s all about paddling out and being out there. All the rest is so much rubbish.
As long as a person operates his business in a honest and straight forward manner. Not playing into the too cool for school mentality and giving good service. They have as much right to be around as anyone. Now…that dog is a rarity in the surf industry, but I’ll stand by the remark where fits.
Good one on Mark for coming on an answering the questions. I didn’t really disagree with many of his answers. Suprisingly. I’m still not wild about his Florida reps and his ideas on distribution unless they have changed but he is still around forteen years later and many have gone. I agree with him. How long to you have to be around to not be considered new?
As for back yarders. I think that’s a really unique part of the industry. The back yarders he is talking about in the article are the lot who were new shapers who started putting their shapes in Surf Shops retailing for $250. Most of that junk was sub par and rip offs. Much of the stuff coming out of Asia today is as well made as any 4oz. Rusty or Merrick from the early 90’s. They are still there today. Putting their stuff out as if it’s new and the same quality as craftsmen with proven track records and much of it simply isn’t.
Hi Solo, I pretty much always enjoy your posts and your insights. In this case, as usual, I did learn something - but I don't understand your references denigrating the "magic" of old surfboards. Not saying I disagree, but I didn't see any reference to that in anything in the interview, nor in any of the posts here?
I'm not a collector or proponent of old boards, but I always assumed a lot of the hype surrounding them was more from an appreciation of their historical significance. Nor do I see any reference to GSI's 'right to be around' - if anything, I get the strong impression they don't think "backyarders" have a right to be around.
I have never been much involved in the industry, nor in the politics attendant, and I'm not interested in starting now. My comment was merely a reaction to the interview, with no reference to the history of GSI and how they got where they are.
You say his backyarders comment was directed at "new shapers who started putting their shapes in Surf Shops retailing for $250. Most of that junk was sub par and rip offs." - How do you know this? Because in the interview, I saw nothing limiting his negative comments to any small sector of the homebuilding contingent.
Anyway, its not really significant, I was just sharing my reaction to things said in the interview, and curious if anyone else felt those comments were inaccurate and biased.
Hope you're having some good waves these days! - Huck
I was just reading an old issue of Surfing Magazine from 2007, “The Year of the Shaper.” There was an article about Mark Kelly and GSI and part of it mentioned how they target the beginner market because he’s a beginner himself. He worked in marketing for Adidas before starting up his company. “I started surfing when I was 30 so I missed all that (mythmaking)…” Indeed.
Also from the article- "GSI’s success has been greatly helped by the worldwide growth of surf schools, which Kelly thinks has done more than anything else to demystify the sport and make it quickly accessible . “We started by pumping out mini mals…”
Nuff said.
Oh, almost forgot. The reason I wanted to respond to this thread. It has to do with big bucks R + D. In the same issue there was this big article about Burton taking over Channel Islands and how these big technological developments in were in the making. All this talk about “proprietary” tech. What’s really come out of that??? Little pieces of carbon on the rail?
I see advancements being made by the medium sized guys- Mike at Coil, or Daniel Thompson, Proctor… Actually the most advanced stuff I’ve seen is by a backyarder named CJ in Santa Cruz…
My reference to old boards is the idea that this is cool and that is not cool or etc. I wasn’t dinigrating folks who feel differently…but… Fact is… It’s all just what it is. There is no magic unless someone paddles out and rides the thing. While anyone who reads some of what I write here knows I can’t stand dishonesty, hype and make believe surfer world nor am I wild about the mass market crew…surfing to me is about actually surfing. It passed being something I was wide eyed and ga ga about with reference to the business side years ago. I appreciate anyone who can honestly carve out a successful business in whatever business they are in. I must say, in my attempted dealings with Mark’s rep and him personally. I wasn’t all that impressed a few years ago. Maybe that has changed. My guess is he plays much harder ball now that his business has taken off.
On Back yarders. To me where a board is produceds doens’t matter. The vast majority of custom shapers do it in their back yards. Even guys like Jeff Bushman, Steve Forstall and many many more are in fact back yard shapers. Like I said. I find the homebuilding crew one of the most unique and it’s why I originally started posting here. I’m not nor have I ever been impressed with those young shapers who know how to surf and believe their shapes are up to snuff with the masters…but to break in get taken in my some retailer and allow their boards to be sold super cheap.
You are right. He did not limit his comments and it would be the type of comment he would likely make…but many of those he deals with still do boards in their back yards so I was making an assumption he was talking abou the same folk I mentioned. Maybe I am wrong? It wouldn’t suprise me coming from the mass producers. All mass producers say pretty much the same thing anyway. We fulfill a need and blah blah. They are right they do, but they are less relevant that they think they are as Surf Tech he mentioned found out.
As long as blanks and know how are there…there will likely always being fine craftsmen he only want five boards a week and to go surfing. Like a one night stand for the gal. Once she has given up the goods and shown what was under the skirt…there is not going back. Once you start selling as the cheap guy you will never get a decent price for you boards. Those back yarders created all sorts of garbage in the early 90’s. About ruined the industry in certain local areas because shop owners would beat up the good shaper on his price or drop him all together in favor of price.
China killed these folks and much of what is produced in Aisia that I have seen it better quality than what some shops sold as high quality back in the 90’s. My comment was " definitely " not a shot at folks who like to build surfboards in their back yards. Most of the boards I own came from board builders who have shaping bays in their back yard. I have written before that I think the home builder and neighborhood shaper is the last frontier out there for something new and interesting to be born.
Recently I tried to get a bodyboard made in Australia but couldnt rely on the local labour, then last week another guy rang me and said if I supplied an original design, he'd make a plastic injection mould or rotomould them for $25 each. From Indonesia.
( from post above
...Warren Buffett (famous rich guy investor type) has said something to the effect that domestic labor is nothing worth protecting...)
Theres no law that says we must retain local labour and be uncompetitive, but like other industries, its time to accept that the most profitable direction for manufacturing is overseas.
I'm checking my figures with this Indo guy and if its good I'll be able to get the boards made in Indo, shipped to a national retailers warehouse in Australia and turn over any number of boards based on a single hand shaped design.
It doesnt have the grass roots kudos of dusty factory boardmaking but it does have greater money and a better lifestyle attached to it and in the end isnt that why were working ?
I agree with Solo that Kelly doesnt have much tangible except for a name, but if hes turning over tens of millions a year, how many years do you need to do that to set yourself up for life?
I suspect its a position we'd all like to be in...
I dont think you could expect him to go too far into the demise of Base even if he was privy to the nitty gritty. Whether or not GSI’s demise would be a bad thing might be a story and a half though.
" I personally think that the whole backyard industry is the worst part of the industry… They do a lot of stuff that is undermining the core market."
What a paranoid egomaniac, with a clear priority on the “MARKET,” and not surfers or surfing.
I don’t know shit, but this guy’s an embarrassment to the profession. And he talks a lot about how ethical he is… He’s a lot of things, but ethical is not his strong suit.
I laughed so hard when I was reading this article... in early november I ordered a gsi mal for my son for xmas through a mates store at cronulla... getting close to xmas started to wondered where it was.. asked the store to track it down.. found the con note numbers and it was in the gold coast.. asked them to get it before xmas to cronulla, it arrived in another store in sydney in the cbd on 23rd of dec.. asked for it to be delivered to the store at cronulla it still hasnt arrived (they didnt order a pick up until yesterday...) funny thing is that even it was gsi mistakes they were trying to charge the store for all the extra freight!!! or me to go and pick it up in the city... bought a mal blank instead..
They should look at their business model as by this example its not working... "he who throws stones in glasshouses"
Maybe their "backyardies (who all they do is send the product out)" might take note of the "backyardies" that he has rubbished in the article... they wouldnt send their product to 3 wrong places before they got it right.. and if they did they would pay for their mistakes.