Handshaping Rocker

I've reviewed alot of archive material concerning rocker design and theory.  However, I have not found alot on the art of coaxing the intended rocker out of a blank by hand (read: planer).

I'd like to begin with a concrete example, but any techniques, approaches, and thoughs will be appreciated.

I am building a performance stub shorboard (5'9'' x 19.5 x 2.5''), diamond tail, quad in eps.  It will be for east coast beach break conditions under the feet a professional level surfer. 

This will be the third iteration of this board, and the second for this particular rider.  The first version was balsa comp, and the rocker was bent in on a bed from flat sheets.  The board worked quite well, but as you might guess from the construction... it went the way of all the earth after about a year of hard (air intensive) surfing--the construction foam sheets sheared and delamed from within (I cut the deck off and had a look inside).

I am handshaping this one from a stringerless marko halibut 7'4'' (i think it was 7'4''--whatever is in the catalogue in that range).  It is thick and flat--really flat.  There is alot of foam to work with and the board I want fits in there, but I'm flummoxed on how to get there. All of my past handshapes (only about 20) have been a battle to rocker--I've had no real control over the final product. 

Looking at this blank, the 'guts' (the middle third) look pretty good in the section I've cut out. The nose and tail are way flat--under 1'' in tail and about 2'' in nose--tons of foam in both places though. 

I am thinking I will use a fixed depth planer to mow the skin and pukas out, just following the blank.  Once that is done and I've pulled the thickness out, I was planning on using my clark hitachi to pull the nose and tail up to 4'' and 1.5'' respectively.   My though here will be to start passes at zero cut in the mid section and start opening the planer up as I reach the tips to get some flip, then finish off with some full length blending passes. 

Please give me some suggestions and comments!  A Barnfield style--shaping rocker dissertation would be most welcome. 

thanks

Hunter

You're doing this the hard way, aren't you? You can chase #s around all day trying to do it with a stick, but I'd advise making a rocker template of desired bottom and shaping to that. If you really want to get obsessive (and I know you do), make a rocker template off blank also and compare #1 vs #2. That will show you, in simple 2D form, where you need to add curve. Refoiling the deckside is going to be a whole 'nuther adventure.

Stagger or fade cuts are going to be the technique. Cross-cut as last resort. Clean-up full length passes encouraged after rough-in. Welcome to the world of ''real shapers'', just like back in the good ol' days before close-tolerance blanks.

 

"Barnfield style"........Ain't asking for much huh? If you are copying and augmenting a previous shape, MAKE A ROCKER TEMPLATE off the existing board. Use this as a guide to dial in. The only way to do this is to make sucessive passes to get the proper curve. Start at the apex and cut deeper to the nose and then tail. Place the template on the deck/bottom to check closeness many times to view progression. Why the fixed depth planer and not your shaping planer? You should get used to using the planer all the time and use the adjustment on the fly. Your current process may seem easier to you but in the long run, the adjustable feature will be quicker and will tune in your senses. TRAIN YOUR EYE and adjust on the fly in small increments at first until you grow confident in the use.

 The quickest easiest way to achieve rocker is to "scrub" cross-ways to the stringer to get close with your planer. Do this by making shallow passes. Star off slow and steady until you get the hang of it. Don't cross over the stringer(s) full depth for risk of tear out. Your wording in your questionsays you already have a good idea of how to go about it. Seems you just need practice and some confidence. Keep Trying.

Thank you for these PRO suggestions!  This is exactly the type of info I was hoping for.  This is important stuff, and it seems like there was a bit of a gap in info on here about an 'actual shaping topic.' 

I didn't really expect a full on Barnfield tutorial, but on a certain level, if you don't ask, you won't know, eh. 

Mike: Obsessive? Me?

Tblank: I will just use the Hitachi and keep practicing.  The last board went vastly better, exp. on rail bands thanks to some of Mike Ds technique suggestions on other threads. Confidence is rising. 

Its funny, I feel like I've reached a point where I can now see problems that I couldn't in earlier efforts, but I still can't get rid of them.  My eyes are getting better trained, but my hands need to catch up.

hunter

All in due time, Hunter. Keep Going!

The thing to realize with rocker templates is that you still need to establish points of nose and tail rocker at each end with a stick, otherwise you run the probable risk of too much rocker on one end and too little on the other.

Hunter – Read this sentence again from Mr. D, print it out, and then post it over your shaping racks.  When setting rocker:

“Stagger or fade cuts are going to be the technique.”

With rocker temps., I establish center thickness first. I think it was M'Ding who says that he makes a few passes over the stringer top and bottom first before skinning. So do I. That sets the thickness to use as reference.

Keith (and Mike):

 

By stagger and fade cuts, are you referring to cuts where the planer is being opened up to depth in certain sections?  I infer that these are partial passes.  I envision doing a series of passes from center where I'm opening up near the tips. 

 

thanks,

 

hb

Don't understand all this talk about doing rockers ! Need pictures ! Here is how I make rockers. Hand shaped from Koa Wood ! This is how rockers should be done !! [IMG]http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r195/Wood_Ogre/balsa-surfboards054.jpg[/IMG]

Obsessive is the price of admission here.

 

[quote="$1"]

Keith (and Mike):

 

By stagger and fade cuts, are you referring to cuts where the planer is being opened up to depth in certain sections?  I infer that these are partial passes.  I envision doing a series of passes from center where I'm opening up near the tips. 

 

thanks,

 

hb

[/quote]

The way I use the terms, that is describing fade cuts. Going from zero to full cut in a partial pass, or full to zero, or zero to full and back to zero, etc. Stagger is full cuts in sets of increasing lengths (usually to rough in a significant rocker adjustment). You may need to use both.

Stagger is full cuts in sets of increasing lengths (usually to rough in a significant rocker adjustment).

 

Hey Mike D.

Could you explain a bit more about this one?

It sounds like a very rough way to obtain something similar to the faded cuts [finer?]

Thanks for taking the time to explain.

Wouter

I have an old set of 'do-it-yourself' plans that show a guy using a handsaw held horizontally to cut rocker in a rectangular block of foam.  That was the first thing that came to mind when I read here about 'crosscutting.'

Hey Wouter! Stagger cuts are a rough-out technique, for cases (like hb's) where you have a lot of foam to remove. He's doing a complete re-foil on an oversized blank. Any time you're removing that much foam, you're going to go over those initial rough cuts with some clean-up passes down the full length of the bottom. That's why I wouldn't advise planing to thickness first, as you wouldn't leave yourself any room to clean up the rocker work. Plan ahead and think it through. Back when we had to cut in most of the nose and tail rocker (pre close tolerance blanks) it was common to do stagger cuts.

This is where a picture would be worth a thousand words, but I'm a long way from my shaping room right now. I don't shape oversized blanks anymore either. I'm describing ''the way we used to do it'' for a special case where hb has this blank laying around and wants to use it for a much smaller board.

Was this covered in Jim Phillips' video? Thirty-plus years ago he was showing me how to do this correctly,

I hope this helps.Shown is a cut down 9’ longboard blank I was given and made a 6’2 out of it.

Normally wouldn’t do this but it was free! One photo shows no tail rocker in chopped off blank second photo shows

same kind of angle with rocker cut in.I had to use deep cuts of varying lengths and fade cuts to get to where

I had a “blank” to work with.Keep in mind I am a hobbyist/hack at best.I hope this helps.

Maybe I’m missing something or we are just saying it in different ways.

I don’t think there’s too much confusion about referring to the other boards you did that work than creating a template. When I do that I do a “rocker scribe” for bottom and/or deck. If you do both then you have an accurate foil of the entire board. You just set up vertical posts on each end of the board, vertically position material of choice (like masonite, PC foam, wood plank, whatever) so that it is centered like a rocker stick, attach a marker or pencil to a decent vehicle to hold it while you run the bottom (and/or) deck to scribe the curve. You can use this same method for rail to rail deck contours or bottom vee, roll, or concave configurations if you want to.

The other method I’ve used when doing replicas that are one offs that I didn’t have material for the first method, or didn’t want to spend the time cutting stuff out is as such:

Stick the board you want to copy on your shaping racks. Run a piece of masking tape the entire length of the bottom, find center point, and mark it as such. Make additional marks on the tape at whatever intervals relative to center out or from nose and tail as desired. The smaller the distance between the points you measure and note on the tape, the more precise you will be to a point of overkill. Once I pull that tape, I sometime stick it on a wall where I can access it later on, or I do a quickie drawing on a piece of paper and write all that stuff down for record keeping. I developed a little system of drawing  that maybe I can find one or do a little example for you.

As far as the blank you choose to use, it sounds as though your approach to shaping is more advnaced than the actual modest number of boards you have shaped. Judicious use of a TRUE ROCKER STICK is key for any serious handshaper. Otherwise you will have destined yourself to hit or miss success, and you will not be alone in that curse among too many shapers to even wanna think about. Place your rocker stick on the bottom and determine where you want center to be in order to allow you to cut in the nose and tail rocker you need WHILE MAINTAINING THE NECESSARY THICKNESS FLOW aka FOIL. At this point, if you have READ THE FOAM CORRECTLY you will know before starting that you have enough to achieve your goal for rocker and finsh thickness or not.

At that point, clean up your bottom from any  glue up crap or nastys and draw your outline (in this case) on the bottom (some guys outlline their planshapes on the deck, and I even met one riend who does top AND bottom). Once drawn and you approve of the planshape, cut the thing out and stick it on the rack. 

I have two different rocker sticks that have premeasured increments from center out on the sticks to save time in order for me to determine where I want certain numbers to be. I measure how much I need to “drop” the rocker to at nose and tail and make a mark to use my planer to cut down to those marks. I use a pencil punch kind of method to place  points along the bottom run so I know where to plane down to.

Once I have all those punched measurements into the bottom, I don’t waste a lot of time with gradual “cutting on the fly” to get to  the nose and tail measurements. that would drive me nuts and take forever. I weight the blank and quicky cut, hack, whatever you wanna call it to get down to where Iwant to end up at eachend. Now you are “there” on each end and you make the cuts you need in relation from center to each end until you get all the numbers you need. I don’t cut perpendciular to the rail like a lot of guys do… I always feel like I’ll blow the stringer up, but to each their own. I do "cut on the fly on stuff that I already know intimately (like models) and I can put in bottom contours while thicknessing at the same time I am modifying the bottom arc in specific spots… once you learn to do this, it can save you a lot of time versus several separate stages. 

The punch method is fast and works well to get you down to where you need to be. Obviously more caution is needed cutting in the areas between center and the ends with a good degree of diligence, but by cutting those ends first, you now know where that arc will finish, and you just need to envision where and how much you will cut to create that desired arc  (a “line in space” as Barnfield likes to envision it).

Some shapers believe iit makes no difference if you plane out thickness using a constant cut depth while scrubbing the blank. Then put your nose and tail rocker in. I disagree. Chronology of cuts are very important when maintaing foil thickness and the rocker you want. Also whether you intersect cuts or not, esp. at the nose and tail… The chronology of how you approach this creates a different result and few shapers realize this. They will reason that the arc remains consistent so what’s the difference.?Try both ways then tell me if you get the exact same result… particulalrly when we are talking about foil thickness. Intersect cuts at nose and tail and tell me 

Deck rockers just add to the challenge.  I just picked up a Yater that Lauren shaped that the customer wants me to replicate. Lauren is not currently shaping citing some health issues. This board is a favorite for the customer and it is buckling in the middle. So I will dissect and duplicate it using the methods I mentioned here as well as rail contour calipers. I’ve done many magic board replicas for people over the years, sometimes of shapes that the shaper passed on or has quit shaping or is no longer contactable. Whatever the case may be, it CAN be done with a lot of diligence and ability w/o the need for scanning.

I guarantee the result, and have never had one return yet.

Handshaping rules… pull the plug.

Mike and DS-- thanks so much for taking the time to lay out professional advice.  These comments are gold.  Thanks everyone for chipping in here! 

 

hunter

hi mike!

none of it in the video unfortunately

i need to come over and make nuther video with u!!

wo

This isn't intended to imply that it is the way to do it.  For historical purposes only.  Also included are pics of a lovely bikini model and rail contour templates.