Hey Soulstice…you got the phone number for the"slut down the street?" Oh yea…my biggest objection to Surftechs are the way they are marketed.
howzit, tuna…check your messages!
naaaah…just kidding. in fact, “the slut down the street” is actually a happily married, very good friend of mine. she recently received her masters in cultural anthropology, and wrote her thesis about modern matricentric tribal civilizations. anyhow, there were a few of these societies in particular that believed that for a woman to conceive a child, she needed to accumulate a certain amount of “man juice”. the women would have several husbands, and when she finally did get pregnant, all the guys she had #&*@ would all be considered the “fathers”. well, my firend Laura just had triplets…so we figure she must’ve been pickin’ up a whole lotta “man juice” for THAT to happen…and, as such, refer to her rather endearingly as “the slut down the street”.
I am not saying that I don’t or no one should ever partake of Chinese products…heck even I eat egg rolls and wontons, All’s I am saying is this is a forum dedicated to preserving the heart and soul of surfing and board building, right. Companies like Surftech are percieved and portrayed as capatalist whores that have sold out the spirit of surfing for greater profit margins. The assumed reason they manufacture in China is so that they can produce more boards cheaper. It is not that China has the best board shapers/manufacturers.( How many of the Chinese guys/gals/kids making the boards surf? “0”?) So if it is OK for swaylockians to frequent an American company that has its products produced in China so as to have access to cheaper tools and provide a cost effective alternative to the community of “backyard/weekend” builders, even though those tools came at the expense of many an Americans ability to make a livin, and take pride in what he did, Why is it then so frowned upon for another American company to produce it’s surfboards in China, at the expense of real shapers, so as to provide a cheaper alternative to the occasional/weekend surfer? I guarantee ya Harbor Freight sells a heck of alot more Crap than Surftech sells boards. Question is, who’s supporting them?
Todays fortune from fortune cookie; You will have an encounter with hypocrites.
“…in a place that doesn’t play by the safety and environmental standards that we americans (and other 1st world people) have decided are necessary, and so on.”
Have you ever been to an American glassing or shaping shop? Some of the “top” companies have no venting systems, no filtration, and if you want to cry for sweatshop workers, cry for the guys who make minimum wage or less in those shops.
My wife went China on business a few years ago as financial manager for a computer chip manufacturing company. The American company wanted Chinese workers for several reasons. One was that they were very good at details and yes, their wages were low compared to ours. But they made enough in three years over there to quit and go back to their villages and live nicely. They usually didn’t need to work any more.
Give the Chinese a break. And look around here. We don’t own compassion in the workplace…or the only top craftsmen. Competion is good. Doug
I just saw some Chinese made surfboards in this giant kuk department store surf shop in my home town. I hate to tell Rusty, Merrick, Lost and other shapers this, but the boards I saw looked just a good in every way as anything I have seen in surfshops around my state. Other than the hurting name on them. The shapes (though stolen from other shapers or using Ghost shapers) the glass work and Gloss looked really good.
I am as outspoken as anyone on Chinese made stuff and dealing with a bloody government like they have, but there is nothing wrong with the quality when compared to much of the junk put out by the big three of the Surfboard industry to sell in shops. I know you can get customs made to order that are better, the average shop board is Junk.
I would not be suprised to see many of the big surfboard makers move over there in a few years.
I am not talking about blues and sevens which I personally think are junk. Not only junk, but dealing with the guys is a joke. I love how they copy the clothing companies which have inspired them. “Sorry, I can’t sell ya, because the big shop up the street will quit buying.”
Step right up and buy the latest elixer. It’ll cure anythang and only a dollar a bottle.
the soul a surfer gets from surfing on his surfboard is completely different from whatever “soul” a shaper gets from sanding with his sander. the “apples & oranges” controversy negates any accusations of hypocrisy…they’re two completely different things…so why would having differing opinions about them make someone a hypocrite. now, if someone were claiming that we should boycott surftechs because they exploit the overseas labor force and should always buy american-made products to ensure that our own citizens in the manufacturing industry can maintain job security and so on and so forth, THAT would make you a hypocrite for suggesting a HF sander over some american product (“Makita”…does that sound american to you?).
i won’t buy a surftech because they don’t work for me. they’re too floaty, they don’t respond, there’s no flex, and they don’t noseride worth a damn. the HF sander, on the other hand, spins, sands, polishes, and does it all for $25…i’d gladly choose that over the $280 alternative.
with some things (like the performance, quality, and craftsmanship of my surfboards), i would NEVER compromise. but with other things (like a sander), “good enough” is good enough.
and yes, their wages were low compared to ours. But they made enough in three years over there to quit and go back to their villages and live nicely. They usually didn’t need to work any more.
that is precisely what too many people fail to take into consideration. consider Bata shoes, for instance… their factories are set up in “third world” countries around the world, and they pay their employees extremely well given the per capita of their respective countries. dumbshits who can’t connect the dots will gladly march around the Bata headquarters with picket signs screaming “pay your employees a fair wage”…but what they don’t understand is that the $2 or $3 or $6 per day (or whatever they’re being paid depending on what country they’re in) is a perfectly fair wage. in fact, it’s more than fair to the point that in many of these countries, employees for Bata shoes possess some of the highest incomes in the country. people in these countries are either very happy working for Bata, or are very unhappy NOT working for Bata…and the unhappy ones surely have an employment application on file and are just waiting for a spot to open up. sure, the idea of making a couple hundred dollars a year is something that you and i would laugh at…but for these people it’s A LOT of money. so much so that to pay them anymore would completely collapse their country’s economic infrastructure. it would be like if we started paying fast food workers 6-figure salaries, and professionals like doctors and lawyers took a pay cut into the $20k/yr range… the economies of the world would fold like a bad poker hand.
I am not a very “spiritual” person, more of a skeptical mystic, but, as far as I’ve come to understand “soul,” I might argue that a surf board has no more or less soul than a sander. To be sure, I think guys making boards on a smaller/personal scale “put” their “soul” “into” it, but does that imbue the board with this so called “soul?” I don’t see it. I have ridden boards made under “soulful” conditions that sucked, and have ridden more mass produced boards that where “magic.”
As for the hypocrisy of surftech v. harbor freight - If it’s USA v. China it would be, but usually it’s not, and many folks made good points about the reality of the situation vis-a-vis the big picture of life on this planet.
“Pick your battles.” Helps me get through the day. Taylor
C’mon. Anyone here regularly break the speed limit and still generally consider themselves a law abiding citizen? We live in grey area all the time because few things are really black and white. I’m not a hypocrite because I’m not contradicting myself. I know I buy Chinese stuff and I know I will buy more Chinese stuff. Not that I like it but some times the choices are limited, the difference is to great to ignore, or I just don’t know until it’s too late. This post is a case in point. I’m writing it on a Dell computer I bought 3 weeks ago. Dell, American right? It wasn’t until the boxes arrived that I found out that the thing is made in China. I winced when I saw that but I didn’t send it back.
I think there is an apples and oranges thing going on here.
Aqua’s point is valid if you look at it from a national pride, quality equals value point of view. That is different from the soul of surfing. The soul of surfing has a lot to do with humanity. Custom surfboards are like art. Some shaper lifted the end of a near finished blank, sighted down the rail and used his sanding block to put his skillful final touch on it. He might have spoke to you about what you want in the board. He is a surfer and probably thought about how that final touch would effect how the board would surf with you on it. Surfing is still a young sport. The pillars of modern surfing are still around. You might walk into a shop and meet one of the epic names. Because of that, the average surfer can still feel a direct connection to the roots. The soul of surfing is partly about the people. It’s personal and interpersonal.
Surftechs don’t have that. True. But of course neither do power tools. Once you jump to quality equals value thinking, the comparison between HF and Surftech goes away. I admit that the sander from HF is sub-quality to the American made sanders but it’s adequate for my needs. The surftech however is not sub-quality from a manufacturing stand point. It is well made. It is manufactured under a comprehensive, documented quality program that involves employee training and step by step inspection. You will rarely if ever find that in an American shop. Where the Surftechs lose is they can’t be custom tailored to a given buyer (part of the lack of soul), they’re made in a foreign country, they undermine the roots of surfing, and some people don’t like the way they work.
If you break it down to the bare bones, he is right that buying off shore does take away from an American worker. We all have to make that choice when buying. But to pull in the reasons “Swaylockians” don’t like Surftechs is sort of a false comparison. The dislike for Surftechs, I think is more to the soul aspect and less to the American worker issue.
Here’s a question that might illustrate the difference between buying HF Chinese stuff and Surftechs.
Hypothetically, if Surftechs were made in the good’ol USA, would there still be resistance to them? What do you think?
Just as a point of clarification, Surftechs are made in Thailand. The HF stuff is made in China. Not too big a point but at least Thailand isn’t communist.
oh, come on ryan…it’s the PEOPLE’S REPUBLIC of china…no communism there! just like the DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC of the congo…anyone wanna vacation THERE!!!
Quote:
Anyone here regularly break the speed limit and still generally consider themselves a law abiding citizen? We live in grey area all the time because few things are really black and white. I’m not a hypocrite because I’m not contradicting myself.
from my perspective it’s more black and white than most people tend to think. i draw a line between civil and criminal infractions, and still consider myself very much a law abiding citizen in spite of my bad speeding habit (got nailed doing 140 in a 35 once…oops!). in my eyes, people establish their own moral code…if they break their own rules, THEN they could be considered hypocrites. at least that’s how i see it, although my vision gets a little blurred when doing 100+ over the speed limit.
The difference being that between tools and surfboards, I have an input on my locally made surfboard on how it is designed and constructed. An 1/8th here, some rocker there.
It would be great if I could talk to my tool designer and say, hey you know what, give me an extra 2 volts, and that handle doesn’t really suit my style can you kick it up about 6 degrees, and while you’re at it let’s put a vacuum port on there. And I’d like the shell to be billet aluminum instead of injection molded plastic please.
I agree though, we’re all hypocrites at some level, you just have to choose your battles. I was taught to buy the best tools you can afford and take care of them so they last a lifetime. That mentality persists in me to this day and I have some of my grandfathers power tools. They are more than “tools” to me, and even if I was unable to repair them, I still would not get rid of them. Every time I pick them up I’m reminded of him and my father and the craftsmanship they tried to instill in me. I try to convey that into whatever I’m working on, I hope someday I will be able to pass my tools on to my son…
The US trade deficit is now a million dollars a minute of very hour of every day. Freighters arrive fully loaded, and depart mostly empty. Some haul away scrap metal and old newspaper. That’s not international trade. It’s spending. What can the average Swaylocker do about it??? For starters you might ponder the concept that not every American needs to own a sander, and that it’s okay to share the ownership of a well-made American sander. This forum provides you a way to connect with other other people, and share more than just ideas.
I have but one sander/polisher. A Makita. in a thread a whiles ago that disuceed the purchase of an expensive sander over the inexpensive HF models, I was spurred to find out exactly where my sander came ffrom.
After seeral calls to Makita I was told that they had manufaturing plants in Georgia USA and also one in Japan. No one could really give me an answer as to where my particular sander came from, nor would they elaborate on as to what percentage of manufacturing is done in the USA facilitiy as opposed to the Japanese facility…but here’s a snippet from their website…
“Makita Corporation of America, located in Buford, Georgia, is the home of Makita’s highly advanced manufacturing facility. This world-class facility has built over 70 different models totaling over 28 million tools, all manufactured for the professional user.”
So it would seem that at least some, if not the majority of their products are being made in America. Of course, who know if they are using foreign-made sub-assemblies. But at least some American hands are touching the products.
Hmmm… nice picture John. Aquafiend has a point. Why does everyone care so much about asian produced cheaply made surfboards, when in reality everyone is browsing the internet on their cheaply made computers, most of you (Americans) drive cars made in asia, and pretty much everything around you is produced in some asian country. So why care so much about surfboards? It’s not about cheap tools vs. expensive tools, it’s about principle… why care about surfboards when you don’t care about anything else? -Carl [=1][ 2][/][/]
I have no problems paying an increase as much 50% to 75% (even more at times) for products that are made in my backyard but there comes a point when you’re not waving the flag anymore - you’re just getting the flagpole (you know where).
Really nice pictures John Mellor. It reflects the typical frat boy attitude and its no wonder that we’re getting our asses handed over to us in virtually every sector of manufacturing. Sloth, hedonism, ignorance, and gluttony are not spiritual qualities.
That includes the freedom to spend my money as I choose.
And the freedom for you to call me, and others, names and judge as you do because of your preconcieved notions of ‘soul’ and misguided notions of trade.
The real joy of freedom is that we can both contiue to do as we please without the Gov’t wanting to kill either of us.
Enforcing political correctness is a step on the road to facisim.
