Howzit drew, I think the bottom line is quality products no matter where they are produced. But if there is equal quality between a foreign product and an american product I would buy the american one. I have 2 Makitas and they work great and 1 is 9 years old and the other is 6 years old, the only thing I’ve done to them is replace the brushes in 1 and a cord on the other. For the guy who only builds a few boards a year there might be other applications they might use a grinder for which might also be a good reason to buy a quality tool. After checking the H.F. web site I find that their shipping costs to Hawaii can cost more than the tool. One thing that confuses people is that alot of products that were orignally made in the US are now made in other countries but still have the same name. Coleman is one that is now made in Japan and Milwaukee is foreign made also.
What I find interesting is the fact that minimum wages in china are enough to live on there but in the US minimum wage earners are basically poverty level people. Aloha,Kokua
And the freedom for you to call me, and others, names and judge as you do because of your preconcieved notions of ‘soul’ and misguided notions of trade.
Easy Eric,
Either you missed the point or didn’t read all the threads. The only time I spoke of soul was to illustrate how there is soul in surfing as opposed to tools. Surfing is art, culture, expression, fun, excercize, competition, industry, nature. Surfing does have soul but I don’t presume to tell you how to define it. I’m not one of these misguided “soul” propogandist trying to hype soul into magazine adds. I’ve been surfing for 25 years and I know it has soul. How you define is up to you.
Also, if you would’ve read the thread you’d have seen me saying this is the greatest county on the planet and I wouldn’t live anywhere else.
Then again maybe I missed your point and you didn’t miss my point. Oh, what’s the point? Get it.
This whole thread just seems like argument for argument’s sake. Apples to Oranges. You use tools to make something else; a surfboard is a final product.
Its like arguing if its ethical to eat foreign-made food while framing your house with domestic lumber. No point.
I just saw some Chinese made surfboards in this giant kuk department store surf shop in my home town. I hate to tell Rusty, Merrick, Lost and other shapers this, but the boards I saw looked just a good in every way as anything I have seen in surfshops around my state. Other than the hurting name on them. The shapes (though stolen from other shapers or using Ghost shapers) the glass work and Gloss looked really good.
I am as outspoken as anyone on Chinese made stuff and dealing with a bloody government like they have, but there is nothing wrong with the quality when compared to much of the junk put out by the big three of the Surfboard industry to sell in shops. I know you can get customs made to order that are better, the average shop board is Junk.
I would not be suprised to see many of the big surfboard makers move over there in a few years.
I am not talking about blues and sevens which I personally think are junk. Not only junk, but dealing with the guys is a joke. I love how they copy the clothing companies which have inspired them. “Sorry, I can’t sell ya, because the big shop up the street will quit buying.”
Step right up and buy the latest elixer. It’ll cure anythang and only a dollar a bottle.
The glasswork and gloss looked really good? Are you sure you knew what you were looking at?
A gloss coat can hide alot of stuff. So can spraying the entire board with 3 coats of acrylic and scotchbriting it. Here’s a little fact for you. Al Merrick will not accept his stock shortboards with any kind of finish on them (acrylic,dolphin skin, floor wax/mop). The cards say “SO” wich means “sand only”. To most that means sanded finish, but most glassers use some type of finish to hide weave or sanding marks etc. Can’t do it on the Merricks, and the guys up at CI that check the boards upon delivery know what acrylic looks and feels like on the board. so I guess it could be said that AL is kind of singlehandedly raising the level of quality across the industry as that work ethic or pride in your finished work transfers over to the other boards that go through said shops.
I actually had a metting with the realm guy a couple years ago, when he inquired about our product. Got a chance to scrutinize a whole room full of those boards. All different sizes and shapes. Longboards were glossed and polished, short ones had a nice liberal coat of acrylic, or several, hard to tell. About halfway through the meeting it became obvious that he was involved in this industry for all the wrong reasons, so I said "thanks, but no thanks", and walked out. You right, they looked pretty good to the untrained eye, but when I see a board coated heavily with acrylic, I usually ask myself why, then look a little closer. We have a term for it and it's called a "watergate" which we know is a big cover-up. I think that's the "soul" or lack thereof that so many speak about here.
Well it kinda is I guess. It’s just that I’ve noticed that some of the people who bag on Surftech are the same ones that gleefully advocate HF. I just thought it ironic!
It isn’t really an America vs. China thing for me, It’s just that It seems that Some are super protective of surfing but not their own country.
Kinda off-topic, but here’s a funny story about Chinese manufacturing-one of my best freinds just got back a few months ago from living in China for about 2 years. He was telling me about all the stuff you could buy in the street. The city he lived in has a huge electronics factory that makes DVD players and other stuff like that. There’s a big stand outside the gates of the factory where you can go to but DVD players just off the assembly lines. When you buy one, they ask you what kind you want, pick up a label off of one of several stacks, and slap it on the front. Suddenly you’ve got a Sony, or a JVC, or a Panasonic, whatever you want. The guts are all the same, only thing different is the label on the front. Kinda makes you wonder how much other stuff is like that, huh?
What I find interesting is the fact that minimum wages in china are enough to live on there but in the US minimum wage earners are basically poverty level people.
you couldn’t be more right. unfortunately, some genius politicians in florida and other people who are oblivious to the world think that the solution is to raise the minimum wage…god help us all. if it were possible to die of stupidity, these people would’ve been gone a long time ago.
I didn’t get to finish my thought. Was on someones computer and they showed up…
What I was trying to say is…Many are protective of surfing’s heritage/culture etc., but don’t seem to concerned about the hertitage and culture of our country, which was most vivdly displayed by community’s that have been bankrupted by globalism.
I know what I am looking at. I have seen hundreds come through my shop and the shops I have been working. Been around it almost 30 years. Yes, a shaper can find some flaws others cannot, but these looked much better than the blues and Sevens and Realms I have seen.( much better.)
What I am saying is the average surfer buying a surfboard cannot tell the difference so for all intents and purposes there is little difference. On Merricks. He is capable as anyone of producing quality surfboards. I have seen many of his which are just that. ON the same token, I have seen many of those Channel Islands sold in shops in bad shape after six months. What else is going to happen to a thin glassed super thin wafer of a surfboard.
I hate all chinese boards equally. With a passion. I am as outspoken a supporter of surfboard shapers as there is for not being a shaper myself. I miss the times when quality and a name on a surfboard meant something. Prior to the days where ads in mags or a bunch of hype took over. Not that it did not exist before, but it seems to be what makes the industry tick today.
Having said all that: Shapers need to promote surfboards being made properly and not sell out to mass production and surf dept. stores. In my opinion they should be outspoken about it, because there is little difference in those chinese boards I saw in academy Surf and sport and the average big name light glassed crap sold in surf shops today. The only difference is perception.
Howzit Lokbox, I find it sort of interesting that al Merrick doesn’t like an acrylic finish. The reason I started using acrylic for a finish is because just sanded finishes get dirty really fast and make a board look older than it is, but acrylic helps prevent that. I would not apply acrylic to hide flaws I would just rehot coat and resand which is what a lot of sanders do.It’s good to know Al has high standards but I wonder if he has ever thought about it from that point of view. It would be a shame to buy a beautiful high quality merrick board only to have it look crummy after a couple of months, he could apply acrylic after he has inspected the finished boards so they meet his standards. Aloha,Kokua
I would be a hypocrite if I were to condemn anything imported, even surfboards, for as a consumer I buy and use products that are made overseas. The PC I am typing this response was made in Taiwan. Of course buying American would be the thing to do, if it’s a good product. For me it all boils down to quality and reliability. As for surfboards, well, hey if you like riding an imported SurfTechBoardWorksCostcoSpecial, more power to you. As long as you’re having fun, respecting others in the water, I have no reason to condemn or critisize you. As for those in the industry who feel or are threatened, I truly sympathize with you, I guess you’re gonna have to do something that will set you apart yet still be competitive with the imports.
For me it all boils down to quality and reliability.
Regardless of where it came from, who made it and how they were treated during that process, who profitted off it and whether that person having any more money is a good thing or not for the rest of the world, the effect the production facilities have on the environment, etc…?
I simply can’t imagine making a consumer choice only based on quality, reliability, and price. There is just so much more that goes into my decision making process.
I’d also like to argue against the idea that concern for the environment or human liberty or economic wellbeing is an all or nothing game. There have been some comments posted in this thread that, for example, because we buy shoes or whatever made in china or drive a foreign made car then we might as well not worry about anything else. Or that we’d be a hypocrite to do so. That’s silly. It’s not like you have to be 100% pure to do any good in this world. Every little bit helps. You do what you can, fail where you can’t, and hey, things improve.
Well said. There’s not a person in this forum who doesn’t buy imported products. For me, I try to put some thought into where what I buy comes from. All things being equal, I’m willing to pay more for an American product. How much more depends on the situation. All things are rarely equal though so everyone has to use their own judgement.
Americans should keep in mind that the reason we got imports from Japan and china is because many American manufacters ripped us off when they had the market cornered. I think back on the crap American car companies used to produce until they got some competition. Now they are improving. Surfboard builders can do alot to improve the industry. It’s really their industry anyway.
Some of the American made boards on racks today fall apart within six months to a year. Now some of those same quality boards are beating them on price and the public for the most part cannot tell the difference. Like it or not, this is where we are.
To be completely honest, if there was a 5000 rpm 7-9" domestic grinder on the market wasn’t so ridiculously heavy I’d have one. The Milwaukee’s and Makita’s are in a word, cumbersome.
The tool has to feel properly to get the job done right.
Consider that the best steel in the world is the stuff the Japanese samurai sword is crafted from. American isn’t always the best you know, take a look at a Ferrari up close sometime.
Frankly I think it’s time we got over being U.S. citizens and started becoming world citizens.
Good Surfin’, Rich
P.S. Just and observation: Any country’s image will suffer when it has a Paper-Mache’ figure head.
