Has anyone used FGI R180 epoxy?

General Discussion
1

The vac bagging setup is getting there so I have started looking into what materials and consumables are readily avaibale locally.

EPS isnt a problem, nor is glass. Epoxy on the other hand… FGI R180 is the only alternative to West Systems. According to the rep (OK - more than a grain of salt :slight_smile: it is very similar to West Systems. I am guessing it’s a clone of West, actually. And no UV shield option :frowning:

Thought it was worth fishing for any experience anyone on here may have had with it.

Might be useful for laminating foam, glass and timber togethor anyway…

Thoughts? Comments? Abuse? ;^D

-doug

2

hey Doug, yeah I’ve used it, only for glueing timber so far though, (ply for hollow wooden board stringer and rails) but I will be using it with S-cloth when it comes to glassing the insides of my top and bottom skins, I had a bit of a disaster with it the other day but that was my own stupid fault! (see “epoxy near miss” thread!) the guy at the shop also gave me some white fluffy powder to add if I was glueing timber with it, from what I can work out it might have been Q-Cell??? can’t remember why he said to do that but it sounded reasonable at the time!

3

hi doug

if i were you i would take the time to source a decent resin and have it sent by courier

you want something thats quite runny(low viscosity) and clear maybe with a uv protection .also a slow cure is an advantage with vacuum bagging ,

Im using one with a 30 to 40 minute pot life and that saves alot of stress when bagging

i would advise you to do a couple of test runs as well…

their is company in aus called?@ATL composites. they may be able to help

1. Huntsman Composites 36 Davies Street Wingfield SA 5013 PO Box 2212 Regency Park SA 5942

Contact: Alan Deverell, Len Lyons ph: 08 8347 4666 fax: 08 8347 4554

i think bert is gunna distribute gregs resin as well.

I use a great resin from a new zealand manufacturer called Adhesive tecnologies ADR resins the hardeners of a good quality resin have a different makeup and it makes a huge difference .

just as a side point when i was looking for a resin i stumbled across an aussie company that looke really good with high quality harndeners and they had developed a epoxy surfboard resin… unfortunately cant remember what but im sure if you google

ill have a looksie as well and get back

4

Thanks Robbo and Silly!

Yeah - I was thinking of looking further afield. Depending on whats available I’d be happy to pay postage :slight_smile:

It would be great if Bert started doing dist for Greg’s epoxies! But I’d settle for any aus distributor… If I could find one.

Haven’t come across any surfboard specific resins in oz yet (except the WA/perth one mentioned on a different thread?) - tho I haven’t been looking out of state yet.

Huntsman Composites is one of the companies I have tried contacting (tho they haven’t gotten back to me yet). For their Yellow Pages Ad the closest they’ll do is Marine. But it’s worth a try.

Thanks again all!

-doug

5

From what I understand Bert and Greg are working together on a bunch of projects. I think that it is very likely that Bert (with Nev and company) would be handling the RR resin.

6

Now that would be sweet!

Greg? Bert? Are you able to comment?

Cheers!

-doug

7

Wewp!

Sometimes it pays to just not give up! Keep lookin’ and… well, the odd prayer doesn’t hurt ;D

Found one business in SA that supplies Bote-Cote. Duck Flat Wooden Boats seems to supply all the Bote-Cote epoxies. And since they are listed as local dist on the Bote-Cote website they should be able to get anything they don’t usually keep in stock.

Sure, it’s not Greg’s product. But so far it seems a whole lot better than the other local alternatives I have come across (and the pricing’s in the same ballpark).

Cheers!

-doug

8

hey guys …

yep we will be doing gregs resin down here …

silly is onto the best alternative short term …

ADR has a range of resins and inter changable hardeners … its what i currently use , but doesnt compare to gregs stuff …

ive made it work by developing my own additive , but gregs formula and aditive are light years ahead …

silly , your probably thinking of a surfboard specific formula that ATL developed …

called bang ten, you dont wanna touch it …

it generates so much heat , you cant hold the tub , foams like bubble bath , and sucks every drop of moisture from the air and goes milky , its totally bad stuff …they had this hard sell data sheet that made miraculous claims , but i doubt the guy who formulated it has ever glassed surfboards for a living …

huntsman are distributors of the ciba geigy range …

they have some good resins , but you need to know what your looking for as they dont sell specific packages …

they deal in larger quantities for industry (boats , planes etc)…

botecote , is more timber specific , they also have an aditive , buts its mainly designed for timber penetration , same , they make claims in there data sheets which just arent quite the same in real life …none are on the level of R R , gregs stuff is the only one ive seen with uv stability …

if i wasnt getting gregs resin i would get some ciba ingredients and combine them with some of my own …

but i am getting gregs resin , so all the hard work is done …

its early days , the priority is getting the resin into our own production and supplying some of the other epoxy board builders …

my phone has already been running hot with crew who want to put it straight into there productions , but as for the smaller guys who just want a few liters here and there , nothing concrete is in place yet …

the logical choice would be to work through the existing wholesale supply network , i just hope the attitudes arent the same as they have been for the last 15 years …

the ease of getting your hands on the resin will still depend on the willingness of people who want to sell and supply and offer the service of smaller quantities …

to the crew who have already enquired , weve got you covered , but at this stage if someone in the traditional surfboard wholesale supply business is interested in carrying the range and distributing smaller quantities …

just pm me and we will see if we can arrange something …

yep dan , have been hell busy lately …

in and out the country , did a trip with greg that was a real eye opener , am planning to be in europe next week , but that depends on how productive i can be now …

got some team boards taking all my attention and if they dont get finished , no point me showing to the contest without the goods .

you also nailed the nev /greg /bert ,team …

theres a few other interesting personalities joining in and some already in and doing a great job ., but they can get an intro when they feel up to it …

probably should intro dave , management guru , who was formerly running the base setup …

and while not your typical surfer shaper style ,surfboard industry indentity , none the less has very credible surf industry experience…

been missing sway time , but having alot of fun in exchange , real busy and enjoying the challenges …

ok gota go …

regards

BERT

9

I heard that Greg was heading down to Thailand. Did you make the journey also? I’ve been having load of fun building my current board. I use to wonder how you could be sure about how each part of your boards behaved because I was only looking at it as a whole. I’ve been using a compartmentalized approach to this board, and its been a real eye opener. I feel that I have a whole new understanding of tuning rail flex through timber length and placement (through an error I mananged to get an isolated 2" flex in one section of rail). I think the biggest gap now is in knowing what traits are desireable on which sections of the board. Once you mentioned contour mats as the jumping off point for you. For me I think that it will be the compartmentalized approach.

10

Bert, Nev and I went looking for material suppliers for some projects that are in the works. Good trip and some good contacts made.

Bert and I are putting together a resin order right now. Should be there in Oz in about six weeks.

Other good news is that epoxy prices sould be stable for a while. We’ve gone up 15% over the past few months and I was concerned about it going much higher. Really worked to keep things reasonable and absorbed some of the increases while watching world events. I knew that we should be looking at prices stablizing but I wasn’t sure exactly when. So my principal chemical supplier called last week and informed me that pricing should now be fine for the next few months. This is really good news considering the recent spike in gasoline and other chemicals. Polyester just keeps climbing and the suppy of benzene continues to be very short.

I HATE raising prices …

11

Bert, Greg,

Great thing you guys are doing here! I’d personally like to express my gratitude to both of you for everything you have shared with us over the months and years past. And I’d like to encourage you both to hang in there. I’ve been through and seen some hard times in my life and I truly believe that if you don’t compromise on your basic beliefs/morals rewards will come your way eventually - what goes around comes around. And I hope that this is the start of things going well for both of you - I like to think that the Bert/Greg/Nev alliance is the beginning of this. I look forward to supporting you all from a backyarder perspective once that becomes an option in Oz. Who knows, I may one day be able to do more than that.

Bert - in the meantime… I have no problems believing what you say about RR in comparison to the others. When RR is an option for me I will use it - I’m looking forward to ordering it through you when that becomes possible. Until then I am going to have to find an alternative :frowning: Keeping in mind that I am a neophyte, which products from ATL would you recommend (laminating epoxy, I assume, but which epoxy and which hardener)? Or would you suggest something else?

Interesting. When Huntsman got back to me they only indicated that they had West Systems epoxy! I’d better ask them again. Alternatively I could try Cast Metal Services, the other local ATL distributor… Hhhmmm… Cast Metal Services is closer. Maybe I’ll try them anyway :slight_smile:

Thanks again and best regards,

-doug

12

Hey Doug,

I’ve used an Araldite 2:1 epoxy, no yellowing, very strong and glossy, I get a 3kg pack for $60. Enough for maybe 3 boards at a stretch.

Have a look at this link http://www.kirkside.com.au/epox/epox.html

Let me know if you need any further info…postage/freight might not be too much from here to there either…

13

G’day Hicksy,

I wondered about Araldite epoxy, but figured if it was crash hot it would have been mentioned other times :slight_smile: I can get that from my local Bunnings, forget quantity and prices tho.

Anyone compares with the other epoxies being discussed in this thread?

Thanks Hicksy!

-doug

14

Bert as a guy who doesn’t use epoxy, a mate of mine is building a catamaran out of it , Strip plank , Is west systems ok for boards. as a boat manufacturing product it is awsome.

15

hey doug these are the resin and hardener im using from ATL in new zealand which i think is a different company to the one in aus . the resin at ATL in aussie has a different name .its called kinetix .

but the numbers are the same , so im presuming the aussie company are manufacturing the same resin under licence (ring them up and ask)

i use after heaps of raves with the nz tech guy colin

adr 280 tx (resin)

adh 28 (hardener)

this give me a long pot life but is recomended to post cure at 40 degress C for 8 or so hours . i achieve this with an electric blanket(be careful i melted part of a board cause the blanket overheated)

a post cure will give a tougher laminate that is thermally stable at higher temperatures.

you can get a resin hardener combo that doesnt need to post cure but you will have a shorter pot life.

my last board i didnt bother with post cure but it took a over a week to fully cure possibly more/

any way pm me if ya want a bit more info or just talk to a tech person at atl

they will sell you a 5 litre kit

if you call them and ask if the resin is same as adr resin in nz and find out what the alternative is .or there maybe something else they have more suitable…

thanks bert for the tip on there surfboard resin .

16

G’day silly!

I think the ADR280TX/ADH28 kit you are talking about is the same as the KINETIX R246TX “kit” they sell (Click on “KINETIX R246TX THIXOTROPIC” on the ATL Composites laminating products page). Probably with the H128 hardener (see the R246TX Data Sheet). All guesses, so any clarification greatly appreciated! :slight_smile: I am emailing ATL shortly.

Dont see anythng on ATL about UV. What have your experiences been?

As for thermocure - I’ll be using a thermostat control :smiley:

Thanks a bunch for the thoughts and info!

Best regards,

-doug
17

Silly,

After a bit of digging on the web :slight_smile:

ATL looks to be Adhesive Technologies Ltd in N.Z. They sell an ADR series of epoxies. Browsing through that list of epoxies the products there are very similar to the same products listed by ATL in Oz (maybe the same). But I couldn’t find ADR 280 TX in that list, which is interesting since the ADH 24 hardener is listed there.

Anyway, now I am emailing both companies with questions :slight_smile:

Cheers!

-doug

18

cool doug

let me know how you go

im happy with the resin as compared to the average boat building resin . but maybe bert casn steer us to the best combo untilk we can get the Resin Research stuff…the fella said it would have good uv stability. i dont know but im gunna do my gloss application with interthane 2 pac boat varnish which has a uv resistant

19

Hey Doug,

I used Botecote (with the non yellowing UV hardener) on my first board and it seemed to work well. FGI do have a non yellowing hardener for their epoxy resin (surf set curative I think they called it). Some of the other epoxy systems for surfboards here in Australia require oven post curing so it pays to ask about that as well.

Cheers

Rohan

20

Doug I use Botecote with the non yellowing hardner, after a year it does yellow but only very very slightly can’t pick it up on balsa only over white can you see a hint of yellowing. It also doesn’t generate much heat when curing as compared to other epoxies I have used.