Have an idea to help keep shaping domestic

General Discussion
1

Hey All,

It’s been awhile since I’ve been acitve here, but have had an idea floating around that I wanted to pitch to you guys.

I know it’s a big pain point in this community seeing manufacturing shipped offshore and honestly, I don’t buy the notion that it can’t be done better domestically. I’m not sure if any of you are familiar with LEAN manufacturing or LEAN solutions…but there is a very good arguement to be made that by being more efficient in our processes and moving manufacturing closer to the point of distribution we can save both time and money.

I’m thinking about building a platform that would help shapers, local shops, machine owners/glass shops, and ultimatley surfers(consumers).

How I’m seeing this work is-

Shapers - We are moving to a point(or have moved well past the point) where the only way to grow is by digitizing and using ghost shapers. Why not do this closest to the distribution center (surfshop - or direct to consumer) Also, how about a better experience for your customers. We can set up a profile that includes previously ordered boards and current boards in their quiver, location, travel destinations, skill level, age/weight/height.

When we know all our customers, we can shake their hand in person and we can generally ask all this information - so shouldn’t we be recreating this experience online?

Machine Owners/Factories - Let’s smooth demand and get more orders coming in. Buying a machine is a huge investment and to recoup the expense we need to build a better/smarter network with affiliate shapers.

Local Shops - Instead of massive overhead how about we sell more custom, locally built boards with faster turn-arounds and give customers a better experience. You can also order co-branded boards with well-known shapers, built locally, and with your shops name on it. Focus less on huge overhead/products with small margins and more on growing and sustaining your business. 

Tell me your thoughts, please, the biggest fear I have is building something no-one wants and wasting huge amounts of time and money. The more honest the better. 

Best,

-TJ

 

2

Great ideas. 

3

Don't get me started on buzz word management strategies. Our management team are always implementing some new one or other. What they don't take into account is the fact that constantly chopping and changing management strategies nullyfies any efficiency gains. However, as we rotate managers so often, NONE of their egos can handle the fact that the previous managers plan was a good one, so, like always, we spend time effort and money changing to the new strategy. In this phase the chest is puffed out and were told how good it'll be for the business, and there are smiles all round. Then, when its cost a fortune to implement, they don't want to spend the time money and effort to support it.In this phase the chest is much less puffed and all talk of the new "strategy" dries up. And the circle goes around and around etc.

 

 

Good luck with your ideas though. If you stick with it, it is better than chopping and changing constantly.

4

 

you’re spot on…colossal waste of time, resources, and such a momentum killer,.  Usually an HR director lurking behind the latest ‘org change’ drivers…

Spent 35 years in health care, education and high tech, managing and building facility complexes.  Along the way, suffered through:

MBO - management by objectives

DMO - distributed management objectives

PRM - prioritized results management

TQM - total quality management

OQM - ongoing quality management

etc, etc.

Oh, and can’t forget the time when a CEO decided everyone in senior management not only had to read Covey’s “Seven Habits of…”, we had to spend a day listening to him pontificate at a ridiculous cost to the company.

And if going Lean, gotta do 6 Sigma Lean.  And get your ‘Black Belt’.  Seriously.  As in, we are looking for a Black Belt in 6 Sigma Lean to take our design dept…

Spent some of career as a consultant, the kind that rolls up their sleeves, gets embedded, and just  doesn’t call out the problems, helps fix them before moving on.  often I was asked to mentor a group of managers as part of the gig.  Always gave the same advice and didn’t take a 3 day seminar, or a total organizational rework.

Work hard and work smart.  Be honest.  Re-prioritize on the fly.  Be proactive.  Listen well.  Make good decisions.  If you make a bad one, fix it.  Give props in public, knocks in private.  Know what you know, and what you don’t know.  Surround yourself with people who know what you don’t know.  Delegate.  Support.  Create two way feedback loops.  Enjoy your job and the people you work with.  Or find another one.

 

 

5

Agree with both of you guys about buzz word management. I’m not trying to sound like a consultant. And you are both right, quality systems are not something you can install, and if they don’t work just switch it out. All of those management systems you mentioned are just bastardized from Deming’s overall philosophy of Quality. I usually just like to say “optimize” and leave it at that, all of those have certain tools that are helpful, but at the end of the day they are just tools in your toolbox.

But this is off-topic from what I was getting at. I’m not trying to get the industry to implement LEAN and magically become better. I mentioned Lean Solutions, refering to the idea (introduced in the book) that by moving production closer to distribution we can cut out a lot of time and distribution costs. 

What I was thinking about developing is a software system to support this, but only if there is enough interest.

 

6

…keep shaping or keep machined businessmen turning the Surfboard and Surfing perception on and on?

7

Implement TWS -

Total

Word

Salad

 

 

Yes, it’s a good idea to build boards near the beach, hand shaped or otherwise.

 

8

I’m a techy, I like software and machines, I think there’s nothing wrong with using a new tool or creating business. People had the same arguements when the planer came out. For the amount of outcry I’ve seen on this forum for YEARS about manufacturing going overseas, this is insane. When someone actually tries to do something to keep the craft domestic it gets shit on…

Yea, I want to help people make money…sorry, must be the NY hustle in me. I like precision, repeatable process, unlimited memory, data…this is progress.

  • Also, for the backyard guy this could be a SAAS platform that you could use to order pre-shaped blanks much easier, all the way to helping you expand to new markets. 

For some guys who want to keep hand shaping out of sheds or in your backyards, this probably isn’t your cup of tea. Thats fine. Realize the majority of this market has already been moved offshore, don’t shit on people who are actually trying to make a viable option to help on-shoring the process.

I remember when Nev started building Firewire and his rhetoric, talking about how he’s going to build the highest performance board with the best technology right here in the US…you all know how that went. 

It’s not just the labor costs. What about the logisitcal costs of building things 3,000 miles away and then shipping it back here and then distributing. What about the lack of flexibility in the system. How long does it take to get a custom board?

Maybe this is the wrong forum for this, I thought most people would have a more open mind now. The only reason for my post is get a good discussion going and to see if I could do something that would be viable for the industry. 

 

9

Substitute collective for Lean manufacturing, and a good example is already in place.

 The Hawaiian Surf Factory on the North Shore.  Single source ordering for 15 world class shapers including Brewer, Bushman, Pang, Aipa, Minami…boards shaped and glassed on site, (and they provide contract glassing for a lot of other north shore shapers not in the collective).  Some of their shapers work just thru the factory, others like Brewer have their own separate business as well, and accept orders thru the factory.

Was there in 07’ buying a used semi from a shapers personal quiver… shapers working in their respective shaping rooms spaces located across the grounds, chatting and checking out boards out in the sunlight, load of blanks coming in, load of glassed shapes going out to the shops.  Appeared to be a pretty cool set-up to an outsider.  And very user friendly.  Can pick a shaper from the site, order a board, prices are surprisingly reasonable due to increased cost efficiencies (the lean/collective part), have a board waiting for you in 3 weeks or so.

Takes grown-ups to make such a collective work, however. And regardless of actual age, lot of shapers in the business who don’t play well with others.

10

Hey Turbo’, it’s like you’re reading my mind!

I’ve been boning up on Rails to do just such a thing, …serious!

I have similar thoughts, SaaS is the go and it will work. Create template sites for shapers where they can create an account and get going straight away with minimal set up and only pay for what you use when you use it.
If you’re a shaper, think something like MySpace but with business apllications built in to help run your shop, it would be a very professional set up that’s easy to use. Suppliers would also be encouraged to sign up to help tie it all together.
Customers also sign up to complete the whole set up and form a specialised social network of sorts.

I was thinking a web site with back end for shapers to store data as you mentioned complete with ‘order book’ forms and the abilty to scan and store old files for each client. Send emails, machine/blank orders and any other correspondence from the one spot with reporting tools only a click away. Merging old data would be the biggest task but once done would be extremely useful.

It’s no secret that small business (not just shapers) struggle with paperwork/admin and it’s the last thing people want to worry about but there can be some real efficiencies picked up in these areas as you mention. Even in my office which is heavily reliant on technology and data we find ourselves using any number of applications just to track things, it’s crazy and it wastes a lot of time!

Anyway, I do a lot of CAD and database programming for my work as a CAD design drafter, now moving data to web based solutions so if you want a hand just holler :slight_smile:

Mick.

 

11

Those are really good ideas. On the other hand there will always be artists who like to keep them one board at a time and although their waiting lists are long some people and I say some not the vast majority, are willing to pay $1,000 + for a board and wait 6 months for it…

12

Those are really good ideas. On the other hand there will always be artists who like to keep them one board at a time and although their waiting lists are long some people and I say some not the vast majority, are willing to pay $1,000 + for a board and wait 6 months for it…

13

hey LCC,

I’m aware of this in the industry. I also know there’s Base in Australia, another collective in Hossegor France, and Ken - Airframe was doing something similar…

In almost any industry where the products are nearly identical (same materials, same process) it eventually happens that everything consolidates, it’s just taking advantage of economy of scale. I think Clark may have helped prevent this by not offering discounts to bigger shops (someone correct me if I’m wrong). But there’s nothing stopping this now, so smaller guys who try to do everything themselves are going to feel the squeeze from both sides, bigger domestic “collective” manufacturers and then the offshore guys…

I wish I knew you guys were so against Lean, I wouldn’t have used that phrasing!

For the guys who can hand craft amazing boards and create a living, god bless them. Don’t get me wrong, there’s nothing like a board handcrafted by an experienced shaper that looks and performs top-notch. This is also a small slice of the overall market. And as time goes on, I hope there are more niche guys who can do this successfully. The whole Retro movement has helped. 

I still believe there is a better way for the industry to evolve and create better alternatives close to home, that’s all I’m getting at. 

-TJ

 

14

Mick,

I hear ya, this has been on my mind for a long time. It’s not a matter of can it be build, but is it worth it? 

15

As long as I don’t move to China, Thailand or Vietnam ( like a couple of others I know of) Shaping will remain domestic.  At least until i  go down the drain that we are all circling.  Lowel

16

no worries, Turbojet…I just over dosed on management speak by the time I retired, and tend to break out in hives whenever I hear any…lol

 

17

I do find it Ironic,that off shore board building didn't move to Indonesia. I'm sure there would have been a few shapers willing to make that trip to shape a board or two for production.

 The truth is there is a good case for bringing offshore production home. Cost of shipping and cost of warehousing plus time loss from source to consumer is expensive.