my longboard has 3 x6 bottom and top plus deck patch. it still dings but that is because it is heavier and when it slips or what ever it has more weight. the only problem with lots of glass is that it suffers more if it floats between layers and it puts more pressure on a weak point ( sand throughs etc) otherwise I love the feeling of solidity under the feet.
not a single pressure ding though. the deck is in original condition and given its life experience, amazing
Howzit Mr.CleanThat is a good question about when freelapping started, I was not doing boards when it started and had to teach myself how to do them clean. Yes I am doing very good but stil have to get used to dentures and need to use them more. I always enjoy reading your posts because you are one of my peers as well as few of us oldtimers here and they know who they are, Do you realize that to have been a glasser back in the old days you have to be at least in your late 50's or over 60. think the reason I enjoy posting on Sways is to enlighten the younger generation about how we had to learn the trade and what we have continue to learn. I really do miss building boards but my health is more important and you and I and some others are survivors in one way or another. I invite you to visit me in the house on the beach at Tunnels when I move in in April if you can get here. I think hat the Saunders are doing a great job of carrying on the older style of board building, Austin and his dad are definitly great at old style. Aloha,Kokua
I glass my longboards heavy as well. I usually do mine with with 2 layers of 10oz on both sides and a 10oz deck patch. I love the GLIDE of a heavy board as well as the durability. I pull back the wide point and the rocker apex on alot of my longboards which makes it hard to feel any extra weight when turning. I glass my mid sized boards heavy as well. Normally 2 layers of 6 oz on both sides. Once again its all about glide to me and durability. High performance sometimes eqautes to the power of the surfer in my opinion. Everyone tells me my boards are glassed too heavy until they ride them..
I just turned 61. I was a basically a backyarder until 1969. I like Austin’s boards too. Cooperfish Boards are unreal.They appear to be working with Jim Phillips a good bit on blank glue ups. I may take you up on that offer Kokua. I have had some famliy tragedy’s as of late and a trip to Hawaii would be like a breath of fresh air.
Hey Doc…
I bought a 100yd. x50" roll of 6oz. Volan S glassquite some time ago, it’s been 4-5 years, I think…
I’ve used plenty of 6oz. S-glass in the past, but it was always bright white in color, which I like… The Volan roll I bought had a super subtle “bottle green” color, which I hated at the time of purchase, so I never used the glass…
Now that I’ve enjoyed seeing all the cool tinted surfboards I’ve seen here at Sway’s, I 'm kind of drawn to that “greenish” glow to the glass…
Is there truely a Volan S, ??? Or was I duped ??
Should I hang onto this relic??? I’ve never cut 1 inch off of this roll, because I ordered it" sight unseen" and hated the “green” color when I unwrapped it…
You could add a very- very small amount of green tint to this cloth and end up with a very sexy '“volan tint”…I’ve never used this "old school " cloth… Any history, or “pros and cons” would be a lot of fun to read about…
Back to the topic here, Sorry for distraction paul…
The standard glass job for a 5/8" thick A 600 core-cell kite twin-tip is : 18 oz- 21oz… top x 18 oz. bottom or similar combinations of 3 x 6oz. glass… The fact that you’ve equalled this on a long board is, wild man, wild!!!
I used to do 4x 4oz. S glass decks and 3 x 4oz, S bottoms on some 5/8" thick core- cell kite boards I built 5 years ago… I still ride 3 of them today, and they might possibly last longer than me…lol You’ve got a lotta’ glass on those long boards dude…
The best way to end up with a super durable / light weight SUP or longboard, is to build it with a quality sandwich construction using a very light weight eps core and a combination of high strength to weight skins that have inherently good flex qualities…imho…
Something like : 1.0# eps core , 3mm. core-cell skins, and a systematically layered laminate of 2oz. innegra, 2.4 and 3,6 oz. S glasses, in combinations to suit the desired strength to weight requirements…
Unfortunately, the cheap / durable “off -shore” built composite SUP’s / long boards are swamping our shores … We can build even better, light weight “tankers” than these companies, we just have to use our imaginations and spend some cash,lol
Howzit Mr.Clean, I'm 61 also and turn 62 in July. I don't move til April so just wait til thenand you are more than welcome to come stay. Sorry to hear about your family. I think I enjoyed the times I was a backyarder since there was no rush and if I wanted to go surf I just shut the doors and went. Aloha,Kokua
Hey, Kiterider;
I've heard of Volan treatment on 6 oz , it's just not all that common, you usually find it on 10 oz and up and in fact I've found it's hard to avoid on heavy cloth. F'rinstance: http://thayercraft.com/Style%206580.htm .
I wouldn't add tint, though, the greenish 'volan color' becomes more apparent when it's laminated, especially with multiple layers. I'd definitely want to use cut laps, as otherwise it looks a little sloppy when the volan doesn't come to a clean edge. ;Being a little lazy, I'm not gonna look up any pictures, I'm sure you've seen quite a few Volan boards and I think you'll notice cut laps on all of 'em.
hope that's of use
doc...
That’s the stuff doc… My friend ordered it for me from Theyercraft some years ago…
Thanks for the info… ")
After reading the material data sheets, am I correct in thinking the Volan treatment aids in bonding with the resin system??
Is it generally a stronger laminate than untreated glass…? If so, then the 5.7oz. S glass I have should be quite strong…
I’m going to try some soon…
Thanks again…")
Hey, Kiterider,
Uhmmm, I hadn't thought about just what the volan did- it's kinda interesting stuff, volan
During application, the
active molecules attach to inorganic or polar substrate
surfaces and orient themselves with polymerizable
groups outward, to permit combination with a wide
variety of thermosetting resins:
What it does is act, in a way, like a soap does. On one end of a soap molecule is a hydrocarbon and on the other end is a polar hydroxide component, so one end gloms onto the oil or whatever crud you're trying to wash off and the other end will hang with water.
Now, similarly, the volan molecule:
[img_assist|nid=1049010|title=Volan Molecule|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=0|height=0]
This is kind of an interesting molecule here: you've got a quasi-aromatic ring component, four very polar Cl- and H+ (that'd bond to structures like SiO glass or metals) and then there's the C=CH2, which could well be taken to a C-CH2-C(x)H(2x) kind of thing in the presence of something polymeric that was in the process of hardening, like a resin, making the resin bond to the glass more than a simple mechanical bond. The sorta aromatic O=C-O could also be broken into by an epoxy polymerising which in turn would make a really good bond with that.
Huh! That's cool!
Hadn't really thought about how it'd work, but yeah, you're absolutely right, that's just what it does. Prolly better than silane too.
Now, I'm wondering just how it is that the volan treated cloth is 'more green' when you put the resin to it, is it that the glass fibers kinda drop out of the equation as it were, or is it something else. But just now, I am way, way too lazy to look it up and the chemist I'd ask up and died on me a couple of years ago.
Thanks, man, that was an interesting question...
doc...
I am not a chemist but this guy that collected Coca Cola stuff told me about how they made a stronger glass for bottles that gave it the green color. Back then bottles were made to be recycled (yep it was “green” LOL…I turned in many a bottle for the deposit cash) and were a lot stronger. He said it was due to the formula of the glass itself.(which is no longer made on a large scale)Glass is made in factories in a bead form and then sent out to become a product. I heard somewhere that Owens Corning prodiced almost all of the glass beads in the USA. The beads are “spun” in to glass fiber and sent to the fabric mills to be woven in to fiberglas cloth. As to what all this means I don’t have a clue. I just remembered it.
just a quick glance at fiberglasssupply.com’s online catalog shows that volan comes in a wide variety of weights.
In “plain weave”…
Style # 1522- 3.7 oz
# 7533 5.6 oz
# 7500 9.7 oz
Flat weave
Style # 3733 5.6 oz
# 1800 9.7 oz
I have an 8’ noserider with the “Choice” label that was glassed with 8 oz volan about 8 years ago. Most likely 7.6 in reality.
Hasn’t this come up before? Many misinformed people think volan = heavy. Not true, at all. Like many glass fabrics, it comes in a variety of weights. Volan and silane are what’s known as binders. During the manufacturing process fiberglass is coated with a lubricant to allow it to course through the machinery such as looms. At that stage it’s known as ‘grey goods’. Once it is woven into cloth it is run through a wash to remove the lubricant. After that, it is finished with a binder of some type. Different binders are used for different applications. As doc’s little chemistry tutorial shows, volan is a binding agent used to form a better chemical bond than that achieved through solely mechanical means.
And, I always order my long(er) boards with a volan glass job tinted blue. It just looks nice to me. Plus, acts as a deterrent to ‘sun-tanning’.
Thank you for the great answers guys !!
This is why I love Sway’s !
I had read elsewhere that Volan cloth was somewhat stronger and less prone to damage, perhaps it’s the aggressive chemical nature of this “binder” that makes it so??
I’d imagine it’s the liquid chromium that has the green color?? My glass is slightly green on the roll…
I figured I’d have to do cutlaps, but I do them 95% of the time anyway…
Any more history or chemical /structural information would be great to read up on!
I never even searched the word Volan, Probably should have, I did not intend to highjack this thread and substitute a volan theme… Sorry Paul…