"Heavy" guns...

I was talking with “Uncle” Dale S. about my next gun. He said Brewer is putting weight on the bottom of paddle guns, ala tow boards. What do you guys think?

I am going to make a 9’2" by about 21" wide, with a 4" thick “belly” to a thin narrow tail. I’m making my blanks out of 2# eps w/ 7/8" cedar stingers, and on this board I’m gonna go with full 3x4oz top and bottom with an additional 3/4 length deck patch, and 1/4 length tail patch on the bottom. This board will be for 3-4xOH waves around here. After my discussion with Dale, and thinking about my own riding experiences, I am considering putting 5-10 pounds of weight into the bottom of the board. If any of you think this is a good idea, do you have thoughts on placement/distribution of the weight?

For fun I am planning on using the cobble beach stones of dense basalt from the local head, which I do much of my bigger wave surfing next too. The plan is to hand set them into the blank with RR epoxy before laminating… So it’ll look kinda like one of those '70’s “beach” tables - just for fun and function. I’m thinking I’d place the stones on both sides of stringer following the outline of the rails, about half way between the rails - stringer, and bigger/more/heavier in the “belly” area, with less/smaller ones towards the nose and tail.

Ok - Thanks in advance for your thoughts -

WOW!

Why not just get a regular blank and glass it heavy? Or order an EPS blank made out of 3 or 4 lb? Or maybe get a balsa blank? Or maybe make a hollow board and poke holes in it.

I don’t know what to say? The theory behind the rocks is that it dampens the chop? oe maybe it makes the board ride lower in the water, or maybe the weight help carry the board and project?

One thing I really don’t like doing is experimenting with big wave boards. The consequences are so much more severe.

Sounds bitchen.

Take pic o’ beach and rock hunt…, and layup.

What about cutting them in half for a flatter layup? My grandpa cuts and polishes a ton of the rocks he finds in the central oregon deserts and they’ve always been pretty cool. Dont know what the basalt would look like all polished out or if you’re going for that look.

If it is not too late try 3 lb eps. shapes super easy. 6 oz bottom and 6/6 or 6/4 top. I guess if you have only 2 lb available a heavy glass job would do the trick.

My 3 lb guns I wouldn’t really consider heavy either.( never weighed one) But the the denser foam gives it a nice ride. They make 4 lb foam too but I never tried that.

From my limited experience; weight can be your friend in the big stuff, dampens chatter and bump. Tough getting up to speed paddling but easy to bicycle into the big’uns once you get going. But, if you lose your board, it’s that much more momentum pulling and snapping your dinger stringer.

Not so keen on the thicknes. My Mellor is just over the line with thickness for me…a little tippy while paddleing, sitting, and forget pushing under a wave. Once I’m up and going though, I don’t notice it.

If you insist on thickness then I think the rock thing on the bottom has a lot of merit…keep that center of gravity low. It’ll take the tippiness out of the equation.

It’s all compromises. Bottom line; weight makes it stable but will reduce looseness. Gotta find the balance. Cool if you could figger out how to make the rocks removable so you could fine tune the sucker. But I gotta agree with the Head; Pretty scary experimenting in twenty to twenty five foot faces. Don’t forget your life jacket!

Read the latest Surfer’s Journal if you haven’t already. There’s an interview with Dick B there in which he discusses some of this.

Hey TaylorO… when RB adds additional weight to his guns and towboards, he does it by adding layers of glass to the bottom. This distributes the weight uniformly, and translates into a balanced board with a low center of gravity. Guys who are adding weights to the center sections of their boards - via lead or whatever - are finding the nose and tail chatter at speed and the boards feel wanky and unbalanced.

Rocks may make your board “artsy”, but I’m not sure how that will serve you in serious conditions… which “3-4xOH” qualifies for. If you’re one of those guys that takes pleasure in getting pounded… more power to you.

Also… some people like EPS boards in the big stuff - like the Mavs boards Stretch and Randy Cone are making - but they like them because they’re light and lively. Heavy boards have more momentum and stability, which is comforting in heaving surf. PU/PE is probably a better choice if weight is your friend.

Post pics.

I think it will be fun going into secondary and explaining four hours of hydrodynamics and how that “dark spot” in the customs x-ray helps your board perform better. “I theenk mee-bee prub-lem weeth surfboardt meester”- Imagine explaining that to Mexicans or Indos- Johnny TSA/Customs is going to be jumping for joy with his first “bust” or developing nation X customs guy will be seeing cha-ching dollar signs $$$! . Better yet, imagine the scene and their ensuing disappointment when the tear open your board and actually find buckshot!

Not sure about using stones and “following the outline of the rails”. I would think that weight way out on the rails would make it sluggish going rail to rail but who knows, it might create another benefit. The designs Ive seen use lead bars/buckshot way up front but tight to the stringer. In the new SJ Randy Cone mentioned using chambers that could be filled with water and easily adjusted. I though that was interesting.

Water in hollow chambers is a bad idea, unless the chambers are completely filled so no air is in the mix. When you have air in the chambers, the weight sloshes around from side to side… that helps initiate the first turn, but makes any turns after that impossible. there are already enough outside forces to deal with when you’re surfing big waves… having the variable of sloshing water makes things harder. I know this from experience.

It’s kind of like turbo-lag on the early turbo cars. You make your turn, and a moment later the weight of the water moving in the chamber catches up to you. this applies forward and back and side to side. Once the water is on the way to it’s desired end, it’s really hard to redirect it.

This isn’t a novel idea. Others have tried it over the years… but you don’t see it as a common addition. There’s good reason for that. but hey… I don’t want to rain on any parades. Knock yourself out. Post pics.

What if you made ballasts’ within the chambers like the crab boats, oil tankers, etc, to stop the shake, rattle, and pitch?

Good analogy with the turbo lag.

Ok – Here goes, and, by the way thanks for all the feedback.

By the way, the point, as most surmised, is to reduce chatter, and add some momentum…

I made an 8’ semi-gun 3” thick, with a serious tail kick @ 2’, to flat rocker w/V, and it thins out there, and gets narrow, and it rides so well, I plan on using some of that on this next one… Less kick (The 8’er, if I push the tail hard, snaps around like mad.), and continued rocker though the tail for more control.

Jay – I already have a block of 2#, and am keen on using it. Good point on experimenting, but my intentions were/are not that radical, actually trying to go the other way.

Chad – Did think the rocks may look cool, at least to me; knowing where they came from.

“Otay” – Sounds like more glass is the way to go.

Lee – True confession: Seriously thinking about trying my life jacket… Got towed one time, and it was kind of mellow – only 2xOH, thick beach break – but having that “tow life jacket,” I found myself just holding on to myself/the jacket, as I was concerned it may go up over my face, and just waiting to pop up, which happened relatively quickly, and I was always right side up! Ha! Not to mention, I saw an add in a long board mag once about a chest pad for paddling/back issues… I’ll let you know. Good point about the ding string too. But, on that one… “What are you gonna do?”

Charlie – Just saw the mag at a shop, saw the article, but didn’t have time to read – will do.

Kendall – I think you have hit the nail on the head – Save the fact I’m so cheap, I’d like to save resin, but then again, I’d use a lot of resin to set the stones anyway – So, I’m thinking of bumming a couple layers worth of 6oz off a friend who has a roll which has been collecting dust for the last five years, and putting that on the bottom; in addition to the previously mentioned glass schedule. I guess I could always and another layer or three anytime after that. I like the input about the even distribution of weight – the reason I was thinking about the even placement of the rocks.

Will – Never thought of that. Not only was your post good for a nice laugh, but good food for thought, although, at this point, I have no plans to take this board overseas.

After all this – I think I may stick one little rock on the deck just for the fun of it. But it will be much simpler to lay up a bunch more glass than custom setting 20-30 rocks.

As for the pics… I had a bad experience with my camera, software, etc. during my first Swaylocks endeavor, just over 4 years ago, and thus the Swayworld was deprived pictures of my 3-piece, flex tail, tri-plane hull board… But, as it’s said, “That’s another story.” Maybe I’ll try to work it all out again… If I wasn’t such a kook, only going online in my office… But I’m getting more hard core… I don’t even have to be here. Ha!

Thanks tons all -

Quote:
What if you made ballasts' within the chambers like the crab boats, oil tankers, etc, to stop the shake, rattle, and pitch?

I think the trick - if this is a trick you must perform - is to make “all or nothing” chambers. All the way full or all the way empty. You could have many strategically placed around the board, and adjust balance according to taste.

Seems like a lot of work to solve a problem I don’t have… I just get more boards :wink:

Quote:
Quote:

What if you made ballasts’ within the chambers like the crab boats, oil tankers, etc, to stop the shake, rattle, and pitch?

I think the trick - if this is a trick you must perform - is to make “all or nothing” chambers. All the way full or all the way empty. You could have many strategically placed around the board, and adjust balance according to taste.

Seems like a lot of work to solve a problem I don’t have… I just get more boards :wink:

Captain, I think we need to blow balast tank #3…No seaman, we need to fill tank #5… Rodger that Captain…Prepare to dive! DIVE, DiVE, dIVE.

Stiff and heavy are your friends!

Add few stringers for weight.That will stop the speed chadder.I have gone 3x 6oz top & bottom before also.

Even glass top & bottom is stronger,my norm is 4oz & 6oz on both sides.

If it’s an easy paddle spot I like 24lb 10’ish guns for bang your head beach break 18-20lb is

easier to handle.

A 5/4 wet suit will be enough of a PDF, try swimming down to the bottom of a 20’ leash with a impact vest on.You better get down deep when a 50’ wall of white water is coming at you.Good for tow surfing fatal for paddle surfing.`

Have fun,