Help! Re:Orthopedic Braces for Surfing

General Discussion
1

So bummed

About four weeks ago I tweeked my knee trying to surf backside on by Gemini for the first time in some decent waves. Been hobbling ever since and the knee’s getting stiffer, more painful and weaker as the days go on. Went to my GP at Kaiser three weeks ago and I finally got to see an orthopedic surgeon yesterday…

To put some perspective on this about 7 years ago I had arthro on my knee to remove all the cartilage (minicus) which I tore and then shredded over of competitive tennis on Hawaii’s asphalt courts… When they went in they saw signs of early arthritis developing then do to the bone to bone contact. It took me an unusually long 6 months to rehab and it’s been a granny knee since…

Anyway to the bad news…

The ortho basically told me straight up tp give up all active sports that puts a strain on the knee especially those that require heavy duty bending like surfing which he said was a definite no no… Get this he told me to take up bicycle riding and that I would learn to enjoy it as much as surfing… I almost cold cocked him right in the office with his pissing barely english speaking attitude…

My xrays show spike-like bone growths (spurs) in the knee joint that have developed do to irritation. This may be the reason for the pain and locking up of the joint but I need an MRI to be sure. They can go in to shave it down but it won’t prevent them from coming back again. It’ll be a long recovery as well. I’m too young for a complete knee replacement or realignment where the cut off you leg below the knee and reposition it to change the pressure location on the knee joint. And no VIOX for the arthritis either.

Anyway…

I’m almost positive that there are lightweight othopedic braces that you can get to relieve the stress on your knee in pounding sports like tennis cause I’ve seen them. When I asked the surgeon if I could them one he said that they wouldn’t be any lighter than my “frankenstein” ACL brace I’ve been using to remove the pressure on the joint. Definitely something I would not wear in the water…

Any suggestions or references regarding (surfing) sports braces for ACL-like injuries. I’m sure the pro’s have popped an ACL and run into this before and I’m sure there’s a better solution than giving this up… Hell I’m Hawaiian born and raised on the beach… I need to surf to survive the insanity of my “other” life in corporate america.

And no I’m not going to become a sponger or body surfer or proner…

I know there’s gotta be an answer…

Thanks

2

I surfed for years with braces before having knee replacements. The ones I used were made of wet suit rubber with aluminum hinges on both sides. I found them by going to google and searching. Unfortunately I cannot give you the name of the brace or where I bought them. They came from some company in Texas. I will do a little searching and see if I come up with more info.

The one I used was a Mc David. Look at #7158514877 on Ebay, cost about $50

3

Oneula,

keep surfing. I have knee arthritis in both knees from sports injuries but I still get plenty of water time but you will have to be careful about what you do. Things I can’t/shouldn’t do while surfing. “Airs” and big floaters are out of the question due to the shock load on the joints when you land ( I never nailed that many anyway) Off-the-lip hard snaps twist the hell out of my knees. Cutback, bottom turns are fine. Deep knee bends in the tube, fine. You need to avoid impact loading on bent knees. You also need to keep the leg muscles as strong as possible to support your damaged knee. Bike riding is a good way to do this without causing more damage to your knees. I ride up a mountain every week just to keep’em strong.

I never used a brace, but here in Santa Cruz wetsuits to give some knee support.

Good luck.

4

bummer…

ever heard the taylor knox story?

long story short…after a real bad accident, his doctor told him he wouldnt be able to surf…you proly know the rest.

get a second opinion from a doctor that surfs…bike riding is excellent therapy and so are some other things…sports braces have advanced like crazy the last 10 years…google it

people who dont surf just dont get it…

5

I can’t tell you too much more than an OS, but I’d try to find one that surfs. A very generous guy, here at Swaylocks, who lives on Oahu, referred a great O.S. to me for a friend of mine on Kauai. His name is DR. Thomas Kane M.D.(Honolulu). He just did bi-lateral Hip replacement on my buddy. I hear he surfs Bowls w/ his sons. You are not too young for T.K.R. but that is always the last resort. Get the MRI and a second opinion by Dr. Kane. If I can help more just ask…

[=1]

http://www.kerlanjobe.com/index.php?practiceId=1052

The Kerlan-Jobe Clinic in L.A. is one of the top orthopedic clinics in the world. They have a great, informative web-site w/ a downloadable illustrated program. You can also get some type of opinion through the site.

good luck,

====================

    <span style="font-weight:bold">Surgical Treatment: ACL Patellar Tendon Graft</span>[/url] <a href="http://www.kerlanjobe.com/index.php?practiceId=1052&dir=treatment&lib=Surgical&optionId=140&categoryId=187" class="bb-url"><span style="font-weight:bold"><img src="http://www.kerlanjobe.com/app/cda/images/2083visualdetails.gif" alt="" class="bb-image" /></span></a>  The ACL, unable to regenerate or heal itself, is replaced with a section of the patellar tendon, located on the front of the knee.

Surgical Treatment: Arthroscopic Assisted ACL Reconstruction[/url] [ 2]The ACL, unable to regenerate or heal itself, is replaced with quadrupled semi-tendinosus/gracilis tendons located on the side of the knee. [/]

Surgical Treatment: ACL Semitendinosus Autograft [/url] A torn ACL is usually difficult to stitch together after injury because the torn ends are frayed and difficult to manage. Most often, the torn ligament is replaced with material from the patient’s own body (this is refered to as an autograft). In a semitendinosus autograft procedure, the donor material is taken from tendons located on the back of the leg.

Surgical Product Considerations

    <span style="font-weight:bold">Knee: Cold Therapy

Cold therapy is used to reduce pain and swelling and is a convenient method to apply cold to an injured or rehabilitating extremity, such as a knee or shoulder. A cuff fits like a sleeve around the extremity and utilizes cold water supplied by a connected thermos or canister to chill the extremity. Water flow into the cuff can be controlled by different mechanisms. The simplest way is gravity; elevating the canister fills the cuff and controls the amount of pressure against the extremity. Water flow may also be controlled by a pump which will automatically circulate the cold water to and from the cuff. After surgery or immediately following an injury, the canister should be refilled with cold water every one to two hours to maintain a proper temperature. The cold therapy may also be used during rehabilitation, especially after physical activity, reducing the inflammatory heat from exercise.

Cold therapy can be used to treat: Knee, Shoulder, Elbow, Wrist and Hand, Back, Hip, and Foot & Ankle Injuries.

Knee Examples include: []Pre-operative ACL/PCL injuries. []Non-surgical ACL/PCL injuries. []General knee pain or swelling. []Soft tissue injuries.

    <span style="font-weight:bold">NSAIDs

NSAIDs (Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs) are a group of drugs used to control pain. This category of medications includes both prescription and common over-the-counter painkillers such as ibuprofen. NSAIDs are effective for many types of pain that can occur because of inflammation of muscles, joints and bones. The drugs work quickly and people often notice some benefit within a few hours of taking the tablet. However, the complete effectiveness of the drug may not be realized for up to four weeks. For each individual, some varieties of NSAIDs are more effective than others. Often, patients will find that one or two varieties are helpful whereas others may not be as effective in controlling symptoms. It is usually necessary to try several brands and continue with the one that is most suitable. NSAIDs can be used to treat: []Pain resulting from inflammation or swelling. []Pain after injury. [*]Joint pain and arthritis.

    <span style="font-weight:bold">Arthroscopic Assisted ACL Reconstruction

Your physician will recommend products based on the needs of your rehabilitation schedule.

About the Review Team

[/]

6

I’m curious, are you still surfing after knee replacements?

7

Oneula, we are more & more alike…

I ruined a knee playing lacrosse about 3 years ago - split meniscus, obliterated ACL, snapped MCL, cracked femur. My ortho told me the same thing.

I had to wait 3 months just for the femur to heal before they could go in. Then I had the patellar-tendon ACL replacement. Later, I had the meniscus & MCL cleaned up with the scope. I surfed with a brace for over a year, including the month right before surgery when the femur was better but I had no ACL or meniscus.

My ortho sent me to http://www.townsenddesign.com/ . First, I had to go see a sports med guy who made a cast of my leg. Then he made a model of my leg & sent it in. Just a few weeks later, my brace showed up. All titanium, carbon fiber, epoxy… (now I realize it was probably made in a vac bag :slight_smile: ), neoprene, and velcro. You’ll be able to see from the website that Townsend specializes in impact & water sports. I even was able to order a saltwater-specific model with some more corrosion-resistant parts.

The worst thing was that I had dings & rail cracks all along the left side of nearly every board. I finally bought a softtop to surf for a few months just because I got sick of fixing dings. I kept it for friends & relations, but that’s another story…

The brace travels well, too. Its even been to Maui…

8

Yea Ben

I think its’ actually more of an HMO thing where they’re doing their darndest to do the least possible for you unless it’s absolutely called for. I hate doctors and usually only go in for emergency stuff. Like the last time when I blew out my knee slipping down in the mountains hiking after a three set tennis match when it was all swollen afterwards. I actually played on the torn minicus for a year before I popped it and it swelled up basketball size…

This Orthopedic Surgeon guy wouldn’t prescribe me a sports brace which I specifically asked for, didn’t want to do the MRI, just wanted me to convert to bicycle riding and give up surfing… I’m thinking of changing out of the HMO now because of it…

Anyway the funny part is I’ve never ever hurt myself surfing seriously… I actually damaged my knee playing tennis and have surfed for 7 years after the Arthro-surgery that took out all the shredded cartilage. So I don’t see how surfing is hurting my knees. Sure it swells up every now but this is different as it’s definitely weaker now which is puzzling. I can stand for hours with no pain working on my boards but trying to make the knee cantilevel to walk, get up out my chair or out of the car is a painful chore now and I don’t see just writing this up to some type of premature severe arthritis…

Paddling out, sitting in the lineup and catching a few is so much better than doing that bicycle pump with the waist floater in the water I did for months at Ala Moana Park going up and down bored out of my mind during rehab. Or sweating like a pig on a stationary watching TV and getting your butt all sore…

Some of these sports braces run in the thousands especially the customs…Be nice if my HMO would cover it…Your’s must have a cost a mint. Looking at the Don Joy OA Everyday Medial Unloader but I don’t know if it’s saltwater proof and I see your point about the rail dings too…

I guess it’s like Bert would say… You get what you pay for…

9

just a quick follow-up to Meecrafty’s point - bike riding can be good for your knee but make sure you get floating cleats for your pedals (e.g. the red ones for Look pedals, not the black ones), as the ones that lock you in completely can do more harm than good… water therapy (aquajogging) is good too.

good luck with the knee & rehab, I’ve hurt mine several ways (surfing skiing & soccer) but every injury is unique.

10

Kimo Harpstrite MD, Queens Medical Center. Big time surfer, trade him a board for a consult.

11

Cove Park Benny?

You injury sounds pretty serious but I had all the joint aches and pains from 20 years of construction work. Heard about a product called Glucosamine from a doctor client of mine who was scheduled for knee replacement surgury. His knee doctor suggested he try the product first before the knife. So far he hasn’t had to get the operation. I take the stuff and don’t wake up with sore knees and shoulders anymore.

It’s as cheap as good quality vitamins and may help.

12

Yup

that’s what the wonderful doc at the HMO told me.

Go to walmart and buy my own drugs, a two month supply of Glucosamine and a big bottle of Ibuprofen 200mg…

So much for modern science…

Hell just inject the cortisone in the knee and give me some real drugs if that’s all an orthopedic surgeon you’ve waited 4 weeks to see is good for. Could’ve got the same advice here…

Actually I’ve gotten some better advice from alot of folk here…

Makes me wonder what the infamous Roy Stewart would’ve said… probably would’ve been to replace the whole leg with a 14 foot hand carved wooden one (just kidding Roy)

With so many of us experiencing the same phenomenon we must be getting old here on sways…

13

It sucks getting older and having all those old injuries come back and bite us in the ass when we get older.

I cringe everytime I see some young guy try a big air and blow it, landing hard and twisting a knee. They work thru the pain and in a few days their fine, until they get older.

I’ve got a friend who was a successful motocross rider when he was younger, now he’s in his mid 30s and already has arthritis in his hips, knees, hands from all the crashes. Image when he’s in his 40’s and 50’s. Ouuuch!

14

so while we’re on the subject, what can a relatively healthy and injury free 34 year old do to decrease the risk of injury to the knees and hips? bike riding and water jogging have been mentioned, what about yoga, stretching, etc?

15

Glucosamine/chondroitin/msm can be very helpful for rbuilding/maintaining cartilage. Do it religiously for 5-6 months to see if it works for you.

You still don’t have a diagnoses yet with out the MRI. If all you have is “spike like bone growths” (arthritis) there are some treatment options. A steroid injection would give you good relief for a few months at a time. There are also injections of what is essentially a lubricant (Synvisc, Hyalgan) which are extremely helpful in people like you with early arthritis. Another arthroscopy to clean up the spikes and damage could help too.

If your joint feels unstable, which I assume it does since you are looking for a brace, there is probably more problems going on than just arthritis. You need to work with a physical therapist. A PT will help you progress through exercises as you heal and show you how to exercise at home. If you remeber what to do from your last surgery you should start doing it. Make physical therapy a part of your life that you simply do every day, don’t underestimate it.

The reason they don’t do total joint replacements on young people is that they wear out. They last quite a while if you’re an old timer that walks around and maybe plays a little golf. A young athlete will wear one out in a few years. Replacing worn out joint replacements is much more complicated than putting in the original.

I have no idea if you’re a big guy but if you have any extra weight on you then get it off. I forget the exact formula but with the way your knee is set up, for every pound x the knee gets x to the third power of strain on it when you’re loading it. A lot of people don’t get told this because it’s considered rude to tell someone to lose weight, but it’s important.

Ibuprofen is an excellent antiinflammatory. 600-800mg three times per day. Just because it’s over the counter doesn’t make it weak, it means it’s safe. Vicodin or other narcotics just take away the pain for a few hours, they aren’t antiinflammatories and don’t actually treat the problem. Ice, fifteen minutes on and fifteen minutes off.

16

I’m w/ KeepOn on getting the diagnosis first as to not waste time on a fishing expedition that, at our age, can eat up valuable time.

Here is some background information on hips and knees intended for people w/ varying degrees of injury. The premise is to avoid surgery at all costs unless it is inevitable. They are written by Robert C. Klapper M.D., my orthopedic surgeon who just replaced my right hip 4 weeks ago. Surfing, now, is much more of an option for me.

Get the book, it’s a great read.

http://www.lahuey.com/pages/knee.html

17

If excess weight is a contributing factor for anyone I may be able to steer them towards some help. My wife works for a pretty smart pharmacist / nutritionalist. He’ll only go to drugs if it’s too late for the nature / diet way. Anyway, they have a new diet product out that they are having great success with. After my wife got enough good feedback from it she turned my neighbor - who had been struggling to lose weight to get back into surfing - on to it, as well as an older co-worker of mine who had foot problems from the extra weight he was carrying. It is a meal replacement that , as I understand it, tricks your body into feeling full so that your body’s motabolism doesn’t slow down, which is what causes most dieters to put weight back on as soon as they stop dieting.

Anyway, neighbor has lost 25 lbs, and co-worker, who was doing half the amount, has gone from 215 lbs. down to 198. I don’t have the product name in front of me and I don’t really want to turn Swaylock’s into an info-mercial so if you want PM me and I’ll give you the name and then you will be on your own.

18

ONeula, I had the same problems with my right knee after a sailing accident a few years ago, the same stiffness, freeing up throughout the day, but re-occuring as soon as I stopped, swelling tenderness, painful, no muscle tone or strength. Like you I tried a brace, but by now I just could’nt surf.

On a visit to my friend in Park City Utah, she said I can sort that… to cut a long story short, it was a case of take these, smoke this :), lie down… she then took a hammer to my right knee, tap tap tap, man did it hurt… what she was doing was feeling around for the hotspots that the spurs cause and hammering them flat… When I got up I nearly left the floor, it was so easy… a couple of days later the swelling had gone down and I’ve never looked back.

Her take on it was the spurs carved grooves in the cartilage, causing inflamation and weakness, the cartilage partially repaired itself overnight, only to have the process start over again.

Find yourself a good sports masseur who can do reconstructive work and see if they know about this technique, apparently physios, masseurs and vets! in Ca are aware [she also used it on her horses]

Contact me off forum, if you want to

19

Aloha Again. :slight_smile:

I read the part of one post where you say…"This Orthopedic Surgeon guy wouldn’t prescribe me a sports brace which I specifically asked for, didn’t want to do the MRI, just wanted me to convert to bicycle riding and give up surfing… I’m thinking of changing out of the HMO now because of it… "

My advice to you, also living in Hawaii and having experienced both HMSA and Kaiser…is get out while you can. Kaiser SUCKS!

The whole theory about how they choose to practice medicine is bad. I had some back problems stemming from a previous injury. Took me like a month just to see someone who would recommend me for work in the physical therapy dept. Going to PT as Kaiser was the biggest joke/scariest experience I’ve ever had at a doctor’s office. Just plain ridiculous.

I say get out if you can. You may pay slightly more per month, but when you are in a situation such as yours, where more medical adivce/contact is inevitable, you want to be able to choose who you see, and when. Being allowed to have option. Not saying there are not good qualified doctors at Kaiser, but you are very limited. I think you would be happier out of their program.

I switched from HMSA to Kaiser, and now I am switching back to HMSA, never to return to Kaiser. Good luck.

Thanks again for the fins (in advance) :slight_smile:

Josh

20
Quote:
Cove Park Benny?

Puamana

I agree with ibuprofen & with losing weight. I’d been 220 +/- since college football days, now, at 36, I’m down to almost 200 for the first time since age 18. My knees are happy happy joy joy.

For strength & rehab, I’ve got an easy routine. I do ride a bike, on a training stand even more then outside. Have a stand & a tv in my garage & ride & watch the news a couple nights a week after the kids are asleep. Movement keeps everything loose & breathing hard for 45 minutes or so is good for ya, I hear.

I also to Tai Chi, a long form nearly every day and go to a teacher once a week. Very good for leg strength & balance. And I too have a homemade Indo board - check the other active thread on that. It helps.