this is an ad in the new surfing - do any of you guys know anything about this “thing” ? and who is steve morgan ? just curious. it looks a lot like a waterski concave to me. (one pretty bad sign, the ad lists a website for the board, and it’s apparently not even up yet)www.hicconverter.com http://www.hicconverter.com
hmm, the image is not showing up ? try this - http://www.momentoffame.com/snapshot.html?id=63869 http://www.momentoffame.com/snapshot.html?id=63869
Brian…This is the guy at HIC who couldn’t copy Jeff Alexander’s patented ‘Gemini’ design (http://alexandersurfboards.com), who is also shaping for HIC, so Steve tried to copy the bottom and call it his ‘new’ design. He’s also kinda rich, and he bought himself a shaping spot at HIC, is paying for all his ads and own promo campaign. http://alexandersurfboards.com
I was going to keep quiet, but your Gemini ravings RH have now taken on an ugly low-class tone, reminiscent of the worst of the “Fat Penguin” rantings before that guy was shamed by Swaylock’s members to tone down HIS obnoxious railings. Look RH, and the things you said about this Steve Morgan shaper seem uncalled for. It’s obvious to us that you are a fanatic of this Gemini, but what good does it do to put down this Steve Morgan the way you did? It does your own cause no good. A long time ago I asked what the Gemini twin-point design does that a wide square solid nose board wouldn’t, other than pose a threat to innocent paddlers and make Gemini riders feel they can try to dominate over a break by intimidation from their pointy points. You guys that ride them need to know, from discussions in the water I’ve had with other surfers, that surfers think Gemini riders are inconsiderate of others and that shows through you needless risk to others AND the non-stop wave hogging mentality that a floaty, dangerous, basically chopped off longboard encourages in the wrong hands. You are not being admired in the water cuz you’re hot, but rather being looked at like those little boys that tape points to their bikes to make them seem “bad-ass”. What next? Are you going to tape on razor blades to your rails? “Forky Pigs” are what Gemini riders are being called. Riding those things is a joke. I know who you are by sight- snake someone again or turn around last second again and those points might just get busted off. Tone down your act in the water, and learn some consideration for others.
thanks for the input guys. sounds like an intense issue, i don’t wan’t to get anybody upset. i’m mostly curious about the concave on that converter. it looks like the converter has a concave down most of the bottom, while the gemini has it primarily in the nose. is this the case or is there more going on there that i can’t see. also, does the deck have anything different going on ? thanks again, brian
Hi Brian, The Gemini has it all the way thru, but it converts to a different angle for water release, along with some other subtleties that are hard to notice. I have not seen the ‘converter’- just that pic - and talk to the HIC/Gemini creator in Hawaii a lot, but in Jeff’s early-on experiments, we found that too much concave became too ‘tracky’, like a Bonzer or heavy channels. You’re fast, yes, but try changing direction. That was what WE found. It was also, as I’d said earlier, tried on a standard (conventional) shape, both by Jeff and another shaper, without much success - BUT - that was in trying to make the Gemini more “acceptable”, and in taking away the Gemini’s outline and ‘tunnel’ channeling effect (the reason there IS the cutaway), the boards never measured up to a Gemini. This was just OUR humble experience, and by no means means you wouldn’t like it. (Anyone have any idea what this board was costs?? I can check later)… Just curious, as that was a point of contention with the Gemini, but I see the standard (conventional) outline as having the same size-range limitations, regardless of the bottom…Hope this helps and doesn’t offend anyone.
RH… Sorry, I was also going to keep my mouth shut, but I just can’t help speaking up. I was just curious… If I took a couple pieces of duct tape and stuck it across the “Pickle forks” (making a square nose with a deep concave) would the board would work significant? I have to tell you that I really doubt it. Should I can get a hold of of a Gemini, I will conduct this experiment and post the results on this forum. Unless someone else gets around to it before me. Carl
would the would would? Nice typo… I swear I read that before I posted it… What I meant to say was, would the board work differntly? I don’t think it would be significant. Thanks! Carl
cool, good info. i was thinking that much concave would track too much, just based on the look. (as compared to what i remember of my old 6 channel 80’s boards) not that i can instantly tell what a board will always do, just from the brief look, that’s why i love this forum. So maybe if that deep concave doesn’t run off the tail completely, will that loosen it up a bit ? maybe like belly channels -vs- deep channels off the tail ? so cool to hear input from people with first hand knowledge and experimental reference on this stuff. i look forward to seeing more on this issue as more people get to actually try these designs and give feedback on them. Brian
Great idea Brian! I myself may just do that, carry some duct tape in the water to “help” these guys with their pitchforks. You’re right, obviously. There is no difference in performance if the area between the forks is open or closed. If the area between the points come into play, it’s obviously too late and they’ve already pearled. RH, you take great pleasure telling everyone how closely you “work” with Mr Alexander (hmmm), please ask this Mr Alexander to rethink this and square off his noses before someone gets hurt.
re: the pickle fork hull doesn’t make any performance difference: Doesn’t less material mean less weight ie: a lighter nose? With the rail extending up further on the sides on effectively a wider nose, wouldn’t that have the effect of making the board take on some of the characteristic of a longer board like better paddling, earlier takeoff, etc…? Less weight in the nose (board actaully “feels” shorter, comes around easier) but longer board benefits. The equivalent volume on a standard single tip for the same length board would be a very narrow nose. The wider board profile in the nose must have some performance impact. Whether it’s a gain or not should be the real debate - shouldn’t it?
Whether it’s a gain or not should be the real debate - shouldn’t it? Yeah, Thats what I thought I was talking about… If you take a chunk of duct tape across the forks, is that going to affect the performance? You could also put a piece of fibre glass across it too… but I thought that duct tape would be less permanent. Carl
Yes- a wider nose effectively extends rails, offers better planning , more rail line longer projections. But less material= better turning? No- not necessarily -just keep the area solid but very thin (nose would be squared or rounded) and it’s even possible to duplicate via a concave the touted “channeling benefits” of having two points. Everthing desirable could be accomplished by thinning and contouring. BUT this I suspect is not their goal. Their goal is to have something different to market that looks bad ass.
For what it’s worth, I surfed the North Shore with a guy today who had a Converter, and he was absolutely shredding. I asked him about it and he said it is the best board he has ever owned. I’m looking to pick one up now.
I know this thread has been dormant for a while, but I'm interested to understand the hydrodynamics of this channel in the HIC converter. It seems to me that to create lift, the wide point should be at the front of the board and the narrowing under the front foot (to create lift, reducing friction and increasing speed) continuing out the tail or into a vee or widening again slightly forward of the front fins. I can't see the reason for the reverse of this except for the theory of creating additional rails and incorporating a convex vee hull with a concave running down it's midline? The Gemini and KS's Manta seem to follow the racing catamaran hull theory of squeezing water to create lift and drive. I'm not sure how going from narrow to wide while maintainfing channel depth reduces friction and therefore increases speed??? However, it seems that the guys whop ride these boards are blown away..