I’m a surfer & know nothing about surfboard shaping and i’ve got a fairly basic question regarding the wide point, a.k.a ‘hip’, of a board. Is the hip the pivot point for a board? In boards where the wide point or hip seems more forward does that mean the board is designed to be turned from the front? Conversely, in boards where the hip is in the tail does that mean that those boards are designed to be turned more from the tail? What about where a board is widest in the middle? Is that outline of board best suited for someone who surfs from the middle of their board? Mahalo, Moyers
I’m a surfer & know nothing about surfboard shaping and i’ve got a > fairly basic question regarding the wide point, a.k.a ‘hip’, of a board. > Is the hip the pivot point for a board? In boards where the wide point or > hip seems more forward does that mean the board is designed to be turned > from the front? Conversely, in boards where the hip is in the tail does > that mean that those boards are designed to be turned more from the tail? > What about where a board is widest in the middle? Is that outline of board > best suited for someone who surfs from the middle of their board? Mahalo, > Moyers Give yourself some credit, Roland…you do know something about surfboard shaping. I’m sure there will be a lot of very good repsonses to this question, so I will just throw out one thing about the wide point of a board, and let the stone-cold experts of the Swalyock board building legions take it from there. Think of the board as a nose and a tail. The wide point determines how much of the board is nose, and how much is tail. The further up the wide point, the more tail there is, percentage-wise. Generally speaking – and there are exceptions to this – the more tail, the longer the turn. What does this mean to a surfer thinking about his new board? The primary message is that a) the wide point is pretty important, and b) moving the wide point has twice the influence it seems to have at first glance. This is because when the wide point moves up an inch, you gain an inch of tail length, but you also lose an inch of nose length. So, one inch of movement results in two inches of change in terms of performance.
I’m sure Paul knows more than he’s letting on about this. I’d like to point out that the hips (at least as far as I know)are not necessarily the wide point. If you look at a conventional shortboard outline, there is a place where the tail curve is most pronounced - often just ahead of the side fins on a tri fin - sometimes exaggerated by the placement of wings. The apex of the tail rocker may coincide with the hips so that you pivot on that curvy part of the outline as you rock back on the tail rocker when you turn. This design concept may not apply to Paul’s (or Liddle’s) single fin hulls that usually rely more on the forward rail as they are banked into turns.
I’m sure Paul knows more than he’s letting on about this. I’d like to > point out that the hips (at least as far as I know)are not necessarily the > wide point. If you look at a conventional shortboard outline, there is a > place where the tail curve is most pronounced - often just ahead of the > side fins on a tri fin - sometimes exaggerated by the placement of wings. > The apex of the tail rocker may coincide with the hips so that you pivot > on that curvy part of the outline as you rock back on the tail rocker when > you turn. This design concept may not apply to Paul’s (or Liddle’s) single > fin hulls that usually rely more on the forward rail as they are banked > into turns. Quite right, John. Hips and wide point often are at different points of an outline curve. I was speaking of the effect of moving the wide point up or down. Sometimes the sharpest break in an outline is at the wide point (like a typical 70’s era semi-gun), or sometimes the sharpest break can be well behind the wide point (like a 60’s-era longboard). Generally, where a board pivots is at the outline curve break. If that break coincides with the wide point, then the wide point is also the pivot point. And, a relationship between rocker curve and outline curve is a very effective way to enhance the effect of both curves. Or, to put it another way, if the outline curve and rocker curve are at odds with each other, they can cancel each other out. Often, that is the reason for a board that “looks right”, but is a dud in the water.
Ronald, you have the shapers eye more than you know … Paul, can you expand more on this, foam volume and foil and weight? Thanks.
Paul, can you expand more on this, foam volume and foil and weight?>>> Thanks. Not sure exactly what you are referring to, Chris. Do you mean the relationship between wide point and these things?
Not sure exactly what you are referring to, Chris. Do you mean the > relationship between wide point and these things? Yes, how important are these in realation to wide point on the board.
Paul, can you expand more on this, foam volume and foil and weight? I don’t think that there can be any definitive generaizations when it comes to the thickness flow and the wide point. Every shaper has a different way to approach it. For myself, in smaller mainland conditions (i.e. not Mavericks!) I’ve had better luck with reverse volume. That is, the further forward the wide point, the further back the thickness flow. And vise versa. It’s a subtle difference, nothing radical. I feel the same way about weight. The further forward the wide point, the more important lighter weight becomes, because the forward wide point makes the board more prone to tracking or being stiff. With the wide point back, a slightly heavier board will still function with the intended manueverability. Again, I’m speaking in subtleties. And, personal taste! I’m sure many shapers would disagree. The old Brewer blanks from the 70’s had the thickness and the wide point in the same general area…and that concept worked in Hawaii. So, I think where you surf has a lot to do with what works for you. As the volume of a board increases, the more it should weigh to maintain the same density. I think density is how we should measure the weight of a board…but of course, that isn’t practical. Density is what surfers are responding too when they like or dislike a given board’s weight. We’ve all had boards that were slugs under your arm, but were pretty lively feeling in the water…because the density was right. I’m not sure how this relates to wide point placement, but I’ve had somewhat heavy boards with the wide point back, and they turned well and had nice drive. If they were lighter, they might turn a little bit easier, but have no drive at all.