Hollow board idea for opinions

I’ve been checking out Robbo’s hollow board thread and It’s got me thinking…

I’m wondering instead of building a framework, to glue up an eps blank with a series of thick stringers glued into the square eps blank then shape the blank and vac bag balsa like a Bert style board, glass, and sand then drill some holes in it pour in some petrol(gasoline) to disolve and wash out the eps. seal the holes and finish the board.

The stringer material could determine the flex of the board. and the balsa would have to be a lot thicker than on a normal sandwhich board.

Would it work?

What thicknesses of materials?

Any opinions?

Creative idea i think…

if you after some more information, check out lost foam (or lost wax) moulding… similar process of shaping a foam peice, embedding it in sand… and then pouring hot metal into it, foam burns/melts away, sand retains shape and forms the casting…

hope that helps, dunno maybe you might find some ideas or techniques in that…

Cheers

L

Hi Lavs,

Yes, fine grained sand or plaster of paris - they get some investment-cast parts out of the mold that are close enough that they don’t need machining, even for such close-tolerance parts as revolver cylinders. It’s a tremendous savings in machining costs. The Ruger firearms people here in the states were a leader in this: http://www.ruger.com/Casting/index.html

Now, to the original question…

If you shaped your EPS blank and covered it with a skin, then poured in gasoline or similar to dissolve the styrene foam…ahm, I had a boat, still do, that had styrofoam floatation blocks under the deck. Well, some gasoline got loose down there, turned the styrene foam into something like Marshmallow Fluff that had dried, or maybe chewing gum that was stuck to the underside of a theater seat. Globs of it still show up on the boat now and then, hardened on the outside and a little bit flexible. It doesn’t necessarily liquefy into something that pours out, you see.

The way they get the foam out of molds for metal is to pour molten metal on it, stuff at least 1000°F, which probably wouldn’t work out all that well in this case. That or bake it ( as they do with the plaster molds) in a very hot oven, which also vaporises the styrofoam.

Using a solvent to get the foam out also has a couple other problems: first off, to get enough in there to do a decent job will require shooting it in under pressure, which will likely cause some problems like blowing the skin off.

And then there’s the effects of that much solvent on the wood. From the method you’re describing, it’d be difficult or impossible to glass the underside of the balsa and of course your longitudinal framing stringers. Putting the solvents to it under pressure - wayull, the thing is that balsa would take up the solvents quite well indeed - balsa will take up more than it’s weight of water at atmospheric pressure, imagine what it’d do with unleaded under pressure. You wind up with a hollow, gasoline saturated balsa skinned board that might literally explode on a hot day if somebody struck a match nearby, or a spark of any kind including static electricity. The fiberglass and epoxy outermost layer might act to hold in pressure until it failed, catastrophicly, and then you’d get shrapnel with sharp edges flying, mostly upwards 'cos if it’s sitting on top of the water it’ll go towards air. This, by the way, is why fireworks and pipe bombs are wrapped in something fairly strong, to enhance the explosion.

Imagine if you were sitting on it at the time.

Ouch…

All is not lost, though. Lets say you take your EPS blank, shape it and then glass it lightly. You could then vaccum a skin to the top, glass and remove it, do the same to the bottom, glass the insides of the halves, fit the two together with as much or as little internal framing as you wanted and there you’d have it.

I’m suggesting glassing the EPS so it’d have less tendancy to warp under the pressures of vaccum bagging, but if you used heavier, stiffer foam you could maybe dispense with that, which would also allow you to fiddle with the shape some on subsequent boards from the same basic male mold. Cut across it and add a midsection to lengthen the thing, or have a removable section so you could make it shorter, lots of possibilities -

hope that’s of use

doc…

First of all, what are the advantages of a hollow board? Floatation, right? Actually that is a mental illusion. Say, you filled, an innertube, life preserver, balloon, etc., with 1# density foam, it would float about 98% as well as an air filled version, (same as 1# vs. 3# foam). The flaw in thinking can be illustrated thus: If we were on land, said balloon would be much lighter, and livelier as a play toy in the living room or yard filled with air than it would be with foam. However, In the water there are upward forces that are quite different, more equalizing, displacement being based simply on the total weight of the skin and core.

Next, lightness; The residue from the melted foam will not pour out completely. A lot of that weight will still be stuck in every chamber, only in a useless condition. I call 1# EPS, “shaped air,” The advantage: Very little weight, without the need for those high density inserts.

Third point, A test pilot feared he might drown recently, because his hollow board broke open, filled with water, and with the currents pulling him horizontally, he couldn’t release the ankle strap, and momentarily panicked. Of course you can play it safe by going leashless.

Lastly, the board would be a cosmetic nightmare, unless you “painted” it, resulting in more time, money, and weight.

What about a starch based foam such as corn. It will dissolve with water. Do not know how well it would hold up to the shaping process. Did a google. I saw there are quite a few company using biodegradable foams.

http://www.precisionfoam.com/biodegrade.htm

OK thanks for the feedback, hmm maybe gasoline isn’t such a good idea mainly for the explosion part I also wasn’t aware it wouldnt dissove and wash out all the foam.

I like the idea of hollow not so much for the weight savings but for being able to drain it easily if I put a hole in the board and I thought that having stringers would create different compartments in the board so that the whole board would not fill and sink.

Doc if I vac bagged the balsa to the eps with glass between then I would have glass on the inside of the balsa and it would seal the balsa from any solvents I used going into the balsa.

I’m not giving up on the idea yet and swaylocks is a great place to brainstorm ideas and concepts.