Hollow carbon shell surfboard

Hey guys, Ive been busy with other projects for the past year. Ive been occasionally checking back here at Sways and following all the latest topics. Im back to share my next hollow surfboard project. For those who dont remember my first HWS thread, here it is:

http://www.swaylocks.com/forum/gforum.cgi?post=252317;search_string=crazy%20hollow;#252317

My plan for this project is to make a female mold from a new surfboard. I will create a carbon shell from the mold and fill hollow space with a framework consisting of a few ribs and a stringer.

My first step was to make a flat table. The board is rigidly attached to the table. A parting line is created from fiberboard and is bent around the edge of the board.

I built a plywood framework to support the female mold and keep it from becoming warped in the future. The gap between the board and parting line is filled with modeling clay and the entire board and parting line is brushed with PVA mold release agent.

this should be interesting…welcome back there LP

Does the master board have a twist in it?

Nice pictures. This is a good project to follow. Good idea for a rocker table. Single layer or two of carbon probably won’t give you enouph skin rigidity, consider doing deck and bottom sandwiches, Salomon style, then you might not even need the internal framing. John C.

Benny, Thats what I thought when I was looking at it on the table!! I think the table is twisted downwards at the rear left corner. I looked at the board very carefully when I bought it from the shop and if I thought that it was twisted I wouldn’t have bought it.

I was thinking about doing a similar project perhaps this summer. This should be interesting. I was going to do it without ribs but using boat roving and possibly inner wooden rails.

How did your crazy hollow carbon wood board work/hold up?

My old HWS is still doing great!! It rides really easy. Its very solid on the drop in. It has only seen head high waves. I’d like to ride it on something bigger.

Nice to have you back.

Been thinking out something similar for a while, this is going to be intersting.

Now I’d planned to do it slightly differently, but I want to see how this comes together, your way looks a bit more advanced than mine.

How are you planning to join up the two halfs?

The top half and bottom half will have an approx 1" wide flange around the perimeter of the board when it is popped out of the mold. The flange will be ruffed up and glued to the flange on the opposite half. The flange will be cut off and sanded flush with the rail. Then I will laminate 1" kevlar tape followed by 2" carbon tape. This should produce a strong rail.

I am thinking about using Monkstar1's Idea of Boat Roving to replace ribs and stringer. I was sceptical about ribs and stringers because it would make the board very stiff. I want to keep some flex in it. I saw some carbon Boat roving the other day at the fiberglass supply store. Im thinking that if I make partial ribs out of 1/4" wide endgrain balsa which will extend downward about 3/4" from the top deck. Then laminate the roving around the endgrain balsa. By moving the roving downward, away from the inner surface of the deck, I can maximize the effectiveness of the roving.

I finished the top half of the mold. It needs a little patching here and there. After I finish the bottom half I will cut off that nasty edge so I have a nice clean 5" wide shelf arond the perimeter of the mold.

http://www.aerocompinc.com/airplanes/CA-Jet/wingpics.htm

:slight_smile:

Thats what I want to do in 5 years… It looks alot like a very complicated model airplane, Thats almost exactly how the models are built!!! Its called the lost foam wing jigging technique, except with a model, the foam wing cradle can be easily cut with a hot wire in an afternoon, rather than a giant frame-up that probably took many people many days to create. Nice Pics!!

Model…?

That thing’s full-size. Those guys freakin’ rock. I have one in the works too - its just like around 4 or 5 projects down the queue :slight_smile:

Nice job so far. I helped start Hydro Epic, and have made hundreds and hundreds of hollow composite boards. A few tips I can pass along:

• Molds can’t be too stiff or well supported. You don’t want them to move around and distort your parts.

• Post-curing the parts in an oven will greatly increase their strength. Epoxy gets soft and pliable when it gets hot. Once the epoxy reaches a certain temperature, it will be “cured” at that temperature - it won’t get soft and pliable. I tested our full carbon boards in direct sun on a 105* day and their surface temperature reached 180*. Boards that were post-cured to above 180* were unaffected by the heat (except expansion), boards that weren’t got all rubbery and were distorted when they cooled down.

• Use your molds as a gluing jig when the time comes to join the halves. At least to tack the parts together so the finished board is true to your original.

• The seams are also critical to the overall strength. 90% of our problems came from poorly glued seams. All it takes is a hairline crack to compromise the integrity of the whole board. If the seam goes, the board will be able to over-flex and fold at that weak point… and you’d have a heavy, water-filled, SHARP object attached to the end of your leash.

How are you planning on laminating the skins? We typically used 8oz carbon (carbon/kevlar on the deck) on the outside layer, 3/8" aluminum honeycomb in between, and 8oz carbon on the inside layer. The rails had a flange molded into the parts that added two additional layers of 8oz carbon/kevlar. The flange requires another complex part for your mold, so unless your going to make tons of these its easier to join the halves from the outside with 2" carbon tape.

If you try to make your skins using only cloth, you’ll have a major weight problem. Our 9’1" longboards weighed between 9.5 and 12 lbs. Our Merrick 6’1" MBMs weighed between 4.5 and 6 lbs - depending on our lamination schedule. Aluminum is expensive and has other inherent problems, but you could use divinicell or balsa or… We made our boards so most of the strength was in the skin. Whatever internal structure we used just helped keep the parts from over flexing (flattening out). Another thing to consider when joining the halves is - as the board flexes, the deck and bottom will want to flex at different rates. That’s going to put a lot of stress on your internal structure. The parts that connect the halves together will get pulled on top, and pushed on the bottom. Design in some give - either in it’s structure, or where it attaches to the skins.

Speaking of flex… I made a set of about twenty 9’1"s with varying flex patterns. The boards came from the same molds, and were identical in weight and dimensions. The difference in the way they surfed was HUGE.

The boards with the most flex would bend in turns, then not want to unflex. The result was a board that felt spongy and sluggish. They would initiate turns and not want to let you out of them.

On the other end of the spectrum were the boards that didn’t flex much at all. These boards felt lifeless and stiff. They were slow or impossible to initiate turns, and they just weren’t any fun to surf.

Somewhere in between was the magic board. With the right flex characteristics, the board would load up in a turn, then spring back quickly, launching you out of the turn and helping generate speed. These boards surf unreal. They turn on a dime, generate speed from turns, and are ready to react to your input when you give it. These boards work so well that I’ve surfed them in juicy triple-overhead waves in Hawaii and California with no drama.

Your setup will give you the opportunity to do the same kind of testing. I don’t envy how much work you still have in front of you though. Carving foam is way easier.

thanks for the tips!! I did some work tonight finishing up the top mold and I noticed that It could be a little stiffer. It had a tendency to twist. Can you make any suggestions on what type of structure I should add to stiffen the mold? Perhaps some members at 45 degrees?? I will add these members while the board is in the mold in order to keep it aligned strait.

My schedule for the top is 6 oz carbon (outside), a core material of divinymat, balsa, or plywood, then 6 oz kevlar. for the bottom I was originally thinking one layer of 6 oz carbon, but I might need to increase the thickness to provide more stiffness.

Also, I may be able to use an oven. I work closely with florida columns and they might have an oven I can use, but if not, Is there an alternative??

Easiest way to stiffen it is to glass a plywood frame to it. Similar to the support structure you made to hold the board - but make it out of something stiff like 3/4" ply. Then just liberally glass it to the mold half. If you’re going to post-cure the parts in the mold (best if you can), make sure the ply can take the heat.

If you can’t get time in the florida columns oven, you can jerry-rig one by building a temporary “tent” from sheets of EPS or XPS from Home Depot - Just make a box that fits over the top of your molded parts. Put one or two space heaters inside and crank them up. You’ll probably only achieve somewhere around 140-150*, but it’s better than nothing.

Are you using the same epoxy for the mold that you’ll use for the parts? If you are, you can heat them together for the best results. If you’re vacuum bagging the skins, let them cure in the oven for 24 hours.

Quote:
Can you make any suggestions on what type of structure I should add to stiffen the mold?

If your using polyester or even vinylester you’d for sure want to have the support structure spaced away from the mold slightly to avoid “print-through”. Assuming you used epoxy, even epoxy shrinks a bit and you could possibly see print-through with the support you’ve build so far. You could have built a box frame and had what you’ve supported the mold so far inside the box frame, all just slightly raised off the mold but cut to fit the mold as best you can. Plywood would be the best.

We used to stiffen our moulds for bumper bars, spoilers, rockers and wing sections by doing the plywood thing mentioned above but cut the frame to sit 1/4" off the surface.

chock it into position for laminating to the mould with small scraps of wood (as few as possible to hold it in the right spot) and then glass it onto the mould using a low shrinkage tooling resin (reichold or similar). the laminate will bridge the gap and hold the frame in place when cured. Leave a good amount of glass on the frame and mould… about 4 or 5".

in over 4 years of mould making never had an issue with print through using this technique and some of the first rocker/side skirt moulds I made are still in service now (10yrs later).

riff