I think a patent would be a great idea, But they cost a minimum of 10,000 dollars…
Cheers,
Austin
“There are few original ideas in surfing.”
True and not so true…
What I did was take the basic Tom Blake idea of a skinned, stringer and ribbed paddleboard, and brings it forward to contemporary…Contemporary rocker, templates and rails, strength and weight…A no compromises accepted mission….
“Originality”…
I was inspired by the basic stringer and rib internal structure of a boat or airplane wing, but from there forward was all-original for me, at least as it applies to surfboards…
Starting with a gluing jig similar to what boat builders might use to create the planshape…
Next, I needed a way to be able to get those interior rails to match the stringer’s rocker… I came up with router guides between the ribs…
With the basic frame complete, I figured out a way to laminate individual strips of thin wood together using something as simple as masking tape to hold it all together when it’s being laminated with carbon fiber…
Carbon fiber reinforced interiors, that’s original thinking…
Gluing the exterior skins to the framework with construction adhesive, not so original…
Then the really hard part was figuring out how to laminate the exterior finished rails to the skinned frame… With nothing but my carpentry experience as a guide, I tried three times with three different methods each taking a week, until I found a way for it to work… How frustrating do you think that was….???..
Though the successes and failures I learned…Learned about the materials and the process, and more importantly, I learned about myself, and my ability to push on through the difficult situations where the only future that you see at the time is failure…
Back to the boards… Shaping the rails with a belt-sander was different, maybe not original, but it turned out to be the best way to it, at least for me…
Then glassing wood with epoxy was at the time, not something as mainstream as it is now…Where do you find out how to do that…A lot of time and energy went into finding out what works and what doesn’t… All part of the process…More than once I was forced to strip off a layer of glass and epoxy, because the whole thing delaminated…
The rewards from each of these minor epiphanies was so rewarding, because it felt so original…I hope each of you gets to experience the emotional high when the creative process is fresh and it feels like you are heading down a path, no one has been on… There’s nothing else like it…Intoxicating….
After I get the first board done, I think I have a “wall – hanger” but I need to ride at least one wave with it…but the ride quality of that first wave, changed forever what I’ll ride… The quest for a better hollow board moves on…
With what I learned, I wanted to share it…Not sell it…
Surfing has given me a lot…My web site is a way for me to give back to surfing…Nothing more nothing less…
With no web building skills, (I’m a carpenter) I struggled to create the web site…Oh, how I struggled… Finally, after so many long evenings and weekends it was up and running…Look at how much content was there and you might understand the time commitment involved…Again, all to give back to surfing…
You probably know that web-sites aren’t free….You have to pay a fee to register an name…Then there is a monthly charge to keep the web-site up on the net…Again not free…NEVER have I asked for money to keep the site up and running… Never have / never will…So too, never has anyone offered me money for what I was doing… That’s the way it was / is and I’m ok with that… All I wanted to do was inspire others to build their own boards, learn about themselves and help others…
Altruistic, yes…
Naive, now it appears so…
So far, I’ve made ten hollow boards…Two I donated to charitable auctions, four I’ve given away for free to friends… One was sold, and the remaining three I have and ride…In all the years my site has been up, I have built boards for no one other than myself…It’s not about the money…
With the web-site up and running, I was getting a half dozen questions a week about the process…Mostly the same questions over and over, and most of those issues already covered in the web site, if it was read thoroughly…I can count an a few fingers on one hand the number of tips others gave back to me…
Getting back to originality, when I started Hollow Surfboards, there were no web sites like it…As far as I know, there still are not…
The reason I pulled the “How To” off the web was over an incident last week:
I did my typical “be at the beach while it’s still dark” start…Very foggy, no idea of wave size or quality, but I’m here: I’m surfing…
I suit up, take down the board, and an old acquaintance stops by we talk…
He mentions that D---- and J----, the two Seattle guys making their own hollow boards and hollow board “company” were here yesterday…
About then D— shows up…Pulls out his first board and it’s just ok…Rails as boxy as a desktop…
Decent woodwork skills, but a white plastic leash cup and a white “Future” fin boxes disturb the visual of the board…
Soon J---- shows up with his nearly identical board…Twins…How cute…They worked on their boards together…
We talk boards a bit and they mention that some of their friends want them to make them boards…Great…I excuse myself and hit the waves…
After my surf session, I’m back at my van getting dressed and racking my board…
D— comes over again, this time with his girlfriend…He asks to see my 7’4 which I briefly had out earlier…He’s looking it over good, I’m answering obvious questions, etc…
A couple of guys walk by in wetsuits heading to surf…They “ooh and aah”, ask what kind of boards they are, etc…I give them the same short story that always happens when I have my boards out…
Then D— starts up with how “Me and my company (him and J—) are taking orders and selling exactly the same kind of boards”…Whoa, easy there fella…
He goes on with a full on sales pitch about their boards are “like fine jewelry”, and boards like these are "investments” and how what they’re making is like “investing in fine art”… Huh…???..
He’s saying all this while holding MY BOARD…!!!..
The surfers ask D— “How much…???..”
D— rolls out " Five Thousand"…
WHAT…???..
Then he goes into another barrage of “investment - jewelry - art”…
PUHLEEASE…
By now there are about six other people looking at my two boards while D— just keeps on rolling…
I interrupt D— to tell everyone, that what D— is trying to sell, is all available for FREE on my web-site…
Someone asks me what I think a board like this should sell for…I say based upon my experience and understanding of high-end boards, $2,500… But, I’m quick to add, that I’m not really interested in making boards for others, but glad to help them make their own boards…That’s why I made the web site…
That just doesn’t slow down D— one bit…Now he’s talking about CNC machined parts, limited edition boards…And on and on and on…He just won’t shut up…
I’m staying pleasant about it all, but I’m dumbfounded at this guy’s blindfully arrogant approach…
As he was leaving, I said to him "So when can I expect the royalty checks for you guys using “The Paul Jensen Method”…???..He laughed and said his “partner J—deals with the money…”
On the drive home, I thought about it and what to do… So, I consulted with some friends and acquaintances, whose opinions are of value…
What I set about to create with my web site was for individuals to benefit from, what through trial and error, I discovered…
To be face to face with someone looking at these boards, not for their ride quality and aesthetic purity , but as a means to make a buck, was like being covered in vomit…
Maybe if you’ve ever worked as hard and selflessly as I have to make something of pure obsessive passion as I have, then freely give it to the world, you might understand how and why I feel like I do…
If you do, great you get it…
If not, maybe someday you will…
Near the top of my”How To” page is this quote…Someone once said, “After you’ve done a thing for two years, you should look at it carefully. After five years, look at it with suspicion. After ten years, throw it away and start all over.”
After all of the time and energy that I put into developing and sharing the hollow board process, it’s come down to this…I’m over it…On to new ideas…
To those of you who think it’s about the money, you’re wrong…
To those of you that “found themselves” in the process, you are the ones I did it for…You and you alone…
Paul
(Cross posted on Surfer)
Wow paul, I really see how that would come as just a horrible slap in the face. Arrogance doesn’t even begin to describe what you just related. I can see why you made the decision, and I respect it. I’m just glad I got to see the site when I did.
Thanks again for the inspiration.
Wow, that was a long post and the story let’s us know where you are coming from on this decission. Thanks. But Paul, there is one thing you forgot: how were the waves?
To some people, making surfboards is an attempt at making money. To others it is a way to satisfy their artistic craftsman drive to create something beautiful with their own hands. And to others, a surfboard is a means to an end - it’s all about the waves.
Who’s to say which is more honorable or pure? (i say the waves, but what do i know)
Hi Rhino -
That’s a fine looking board you’ve created there!
FWIW… you might, as a courtesy, check with Roy before putting out details of his design or construction method.
Antonio Stradivari only made about 1100 musical instruments during his long life. Hundreds of thousands of copies of his violins were made after his death. Obviously his secrecy about his methods didn’t prevent copies from being made. It just prevented really good copies from being made.
Roy is very ok, in fact, stoked with my plans as long as I give him the credit for his method.
Cheers,
Austin
OK 10% aint enough
50% is almost enough
the cease and desist
court order is in order
the new and improved plan is the call
home use cheaper
comercial 5x…
Intelectual property?
oxymorons
putting words in your mouth
thats slander
make the move own your name
sellem the antiquated process name
and then eclipse it
with the love of pure research
ice nine the kooks {kuks}
up the revoultion
up yours seeyattle yuppic toupee con artists
sell the copies at the state fair
make em retro pay yall for everything
call up Saint Peter and file a complaint
tell em ambrose sent you.
all the best belongs to you
you did it right
its about time somebody does it stupid to put your stuff in propper perspective.
5000?yep 2500 is yours
…ambrose…
ride in like Karl Laggerfield and tell em all their work is shit
and they better come up to snuff or
you are pulling your licencing and
taking them to court in reno
wher your uncle Ted is the judge.
heh heh!
Well Paul… I thank you for what was up there for so long. I built my own, and still ride it. It likely will never ber out of my possession. Borrowed out maybe. I appreciated your method, having built cedar/epoxy canoes in the past. kudos to you… I appreciate what help you gave to me. Joel
Just goes to show you all it takes is one obnoxious loudmouth to blow it for everybody. Like the people who leave trash when crossing private land to surfbreaks. I try to think the best of everyone but some people act like morons. Personally I’ve never caught the bug to make a hollow board. But I think Pauls craftsmanship and generosity has been first rate. And in my opinion he’s a first rate guy. My wifes sister lives right by you. She was suprised I’d heard of you. Another example of Swaylocks making the world smaller. Next time we’re on your side of the Pacific we’ll look you up.
Jon
Quote:
I think a patent would be a great idea, But they cost a minimum of 10,000 dollars...
I’ve done them for less. A lot less. If you file your own (which may be OK if you’ve written 4-5 with lawyers already), it will be under $2000.
That may have been too general a statment then. All I know is that my step mom is a patent person(term?) and when I asked her about patents she said “They cost a minium of 10,000.” but maby that’s with her fees.
Cheers,
Austin
Just want to say thanks Paul. I had a great time building my hollow. I will never forget coming across your site and thinking WOW he has even posted the instructions, I can make one, all I have to do is follow the steps. I could not wait to finish work every day so that I could work on my hollow. I enjoyed each stage of the process from beginning to end. I realize it must have been a lot of work to get the process figured out and I admire your creativity as well as your perseverance.
Thanks again,
Mark
The worst part of the whole situation is that it appears the guys who are looking to make a buck from your original ideas are trying to sell the very first hollow boards they are building. From the posts on Swaylocks to their website they don’t even hide the fact that this is new to them. I would feel real sorry for the poor jackass who actually pays for one of their boards, which from your description of the “craftsmanship”, I doubt there will be many.
Can you say Karma?
Hey Paul.
I’ve not been here for a week or so and was hoping that something may have happened in the last week to change your mind about the decision. After reading the story I realise that there is no undoing that or no way for that to be put right. I’m just glad that when D… PM’d me some time back with the suggestion of “sharing” ideas about the process, I could come up with nothing of any particular use for him to cash in on or claim as his own stroke of genius. Man, that whole thing blows.
Whenever anyone has asked me about my boards I have always been chuffed that they were interested in them and am always happy to discuss the construction process but I make sure that they know whose generosity made it possible for me to build it.
Jase (MMM)
Let me rupture some of the sillyness I’ve been reading.
I’ve applied for a patent before for a golf product.
We were rushing a new product to market and wanted ‘patent pending’ on our
product to discourage new entries and per chance get a patent also.
Number 1 rule: you cant patent anything you’ve already published, publicly shown, or sold.
However, if you have violated the rule above you can still apply but you’d have to lie
about your compliance about not showing it, and any patent issued could easily be
challenged in court.
I was told having a patent was like holding a loaded gun. Once you have the patent you have to be willing to spend the money to defend it.
You know that little rubber thingy you put on the tip or nose of your longboard called a “nosegaurd”?
Anywhoo the patent holder of this great product spent over $200,000 us dollars in legal fees in AUS to defend his patent.
Seems a rip off artist from down under sent a nose gaurd to Asia and had a bunch made pretty much like the original patented product.
His defense consisted of a drawing of the idea on a napkin with a date on it and signed by two of his family members. It was dated prior to ths provisional patent on the real inventors product. The AUS judge found in favor of napkin boy. He would have been laughed out of any U.S. court with that documentation.
I wish Paul would keep his instruction site up. I don’t think it would make a difference in what the copy cats can produce. There is only one Paul Jensen Surfboards. And the quality that speaks of could not be replicated easily. It’s not like you could send one out to have a mold made in China. Even with the step by step instructions only Paul or an apprentice of his could make such a beautiful board.
I will someday try to build a hollow wood board. I would pay big dollars for a precut rib kit by Paul to get me on the right heading. I know Paul is not necessarily into the money aspect of his craft, but I think he would rake it in selling rib kits.
Every wood lam board I finish, no matter how nice, unusual or cool it looks I always think in my mind…“It’s no Paul Jensen’s but it will do.”
So, I’m sure that people now have figured out who is the culprit behind this whole thing… I feel that I have the right to answer here.
My buddy and I built a couple of hollow wooden boards, yes, they are rough, but they surf good. We felt inspired by PJ’s info and learned from what he posted. Yes, we learned from what he put out there. We have also changed things that worked for us better, and thought it would be cool to make some boards for friends and a few folks, thought maybe 5-6 boards per build would maybe put us at a level that we could justify the time and the expense of building them if we were to find a couple of buyers that would pay for doing something cool.
So, we built 2 boards, pretty identical, except, the first one had more flaws than the second… We put up a website. There are more reasons for it than I can state here, but we’ll be making other things soon that don’t relate to surfing that we’ve been involved in years before. It was really more the labor of love thing, and if you can help to cover some costs, cool. PJ was cool with all of it until the meeting at the beach. We were finally finished. He told us that we’d done a better job with HWS than he’d seen. We tried to innovate and used some different materials, and yes, we’ve got some growing to do. However, we do have friends that want us to build for them, so we’re going to build them for friends, for a price.
PJ surfed with us, we met him, we were sharing ideas, and I thought it was a friendly collaboration of ideas. He told us that he’s going to start doing rails in balsa, seeing how it turned out so well for us, we took some ideas from him… I am in no way an “expert”, I’m still learning, and appreciate all of the collaboration I’ve gotten here. yes, there were people oohing and aahing at both our boards, and PJ’s boards all day. When I was checking out PJ’s board, there were people checking them out… They asked “how much”, and PJ turned and looked at me and said “he’s the one that’s selling them…” and I felt like I was put on the spot with folks I’ve seen around the break. Yes, I choked out a number. Yes, I don’t have a “marketing plan” or whatever, so I tried not to piss him off with verbeage that was similar to his, so I tried to make an analogy: If you have a watch, it’s just a watch, but if you have a Rolex, it’s not just a watch, but it’s jewelry, functional jewelry. I think that any custom board that was built from love and labor is like that. It’s not just any board, but it’s a work of art and a creation to be admired.
So, yes, it was an awkward moment, being put on the spot like that, when we’re really not doing any kind of full-on marketing, we’re just testing the waters… I appreciate the concept of HWS, and I was hoping we could do custom boards in the area, to help validate that they are cool and worth having. I never meant to steal any thuder from PJ and tried to give respect and love to him during the process. The truth is though, that he NEVER answered any of my e-mails to him until I did a website about what I was doing, then it was a scathing process.
I wish PJ all the best, and I thought he was joking about a “royalty fee”, that’s why I answered why I did. I got a demand e-mail from him and told him that we’d have to think about it. I haven’t heard back. I have talked to a number of my friends and we have decided to abandon the “method” of making them and try to continue the spirit of wooden surfboards, some hollow, some not, but we are going to take the collective mind of our friends and colleagues and some of the free “collaborative information” we’ve seen here and try something new but similar. Please don’t hate us if we sell a couple of them to cover costs. If it works out for us, we’ll share it here… However, we’ll do some other things too, like wakeboards, wakeskates, wakesurfers, and hydrofoils too… If competition worries folks; I have one thing to say to you: If others aren’t trying to do what you do… maybe it’s not a working thing… imitation should be considered flattery, not competition or theft. Bert Burger has shared his processes here, and they’re very similar to the way Rossignol makes VAS snowboards (and other brands). It makes sense. There’s no need to fight over money, if you want to sell boards, sell them. If they sell, that’s cool.
Anyway, we’re not trying to become some ‘next big thing’ kind of surf company, we didn’t even brand our first prototype boards. We just think that HWS are cool and would like to make a few, here and there, above what we make for ourselves, to help cover costs. We hope that we can justify the costs of experimentation in CNC and machining and figure out a way to do it easier and quicker and more accurately. I hope the shaping world can forgive us our tresspasses. If not, we’ll go back to what we’ve done for years (for different brands): Wakeboarding and Snowboarding and WakeSurfing and Hydrofoiling
Dave
I have waded through this thread twice now, and had gone to Paul Jensens site in the past. His creftsmanship is outstanding. The PJ method as I hear it termed, is in my opinion a “refined” version of the Tom Blake Method. At the core, the two are nearly identical. Some of the construction techniques used by PJ, are the same I observed being used by ALAN NELSON (one of that first group of men to ride Waimea in 1957) during the construction of his award winning aircraft the DRAGONFLY, back in 1980. Ribs in the wings, skin attachments, stringers, all common to Blakes hollow paddleboards, and aircraft wing construction. Basic woodworking, and in the public domain for a long time. PJ’s contribution is the refinement of the lines to be more “modern” and pleasing to our eyes, than Blakes’ original design which appear unrefined and clumsy by our current standards. BUT, that was CUTTING EDGE in his day, and, as stated earlier, at their core the two methods are the same. I don’t believe it is patentable as something “new”. It is an interesting approach to board construction, and some of the examples produced are beautiful in both design and craftsmanship. If the goal was to share the “how to” with others, PJ succeeded. Why the anguish if someone uses the information to make a little money to cover costs?
I agree with you there Thraillkill. I’m pretty much copying what bert burger is doing ( at least they look like berts boards) and I charged my friend money for making one, I cant make boards and give them away for free.
maybe most people here on swaylocks make boards for themselves and are a happy with that but I’m one of those dreaming of becoming a professional shaper,at least so I can feed my family doing it. So I take all information that is avaiable to my advantage.
jimmy yoshio shibata.