@ home

…I have Got a little ‘home time’ set up now.

Time for a build.

Nothing to “technologically advanced”

It will be:-

*hot wired block foam vh grade 28kg/m3

*XPS stringer

Thats about it with materials so far… Epoxy of of course…

Got a variety of cloths with me (not a lot) enough I hope, bit of quad axle, and carbon stuff ha.

 

…FLEX pattern is my major point of interest…

there for:- 

*standard fcs1 (dual plugs) 

oh, and sorry to bore you, just a standard shortboard shape.

…I’m going to move through this build pretty fast (unless the paint doesn’t dry quick enough). 

I have a some ideas.

but

If anyone would like to chime in, with an idea or 2, on flex, strength.

build is for 72kg, med size Gold Coast waves (not the supa bank-wank). standard alround ‘performance’ (hate that term) surfboard.

Thanks.

 

vh 28kg/m3 eps foam

XPS 50mm stringer.

when pushing a rail turn.

Kenetic energy and flex…

(i’m no expert pro surfer or have a pro team to fumble my way)

If ya push hard ‘Iwouldn’t want the board to flex between my feet’ and loose energy out.

 

This is gonna be good

we’ll see.

ta

(i’m no expert pro surfer or have a pro team to fumble my way) 

Me 2…

I’ll jump in as this has got to be provocative enough to catch fire.

In “Forest Gump” style.

It’s simple

Predictable flex needs to be controlled, yeah??

Carbon/Arrimid fiber helps…

If ya push hard ‘Iwouldn’t want the board to flex between my feet’ and loose energy out.

Blessings and best to U, Yorky! +1

much respect.

however,

… I’m of the mind set of what I (we) can take away to gain variable ‘max’ flex. only 72kg light rider. don’t want to lock up the tail to much.

eg no carbon on tail stomp patch (granted, there valuable) but… thinking I’d like the flex out the tail to be freed up. :)… hence, the use of fcs1 plugs (instead of my loved futures fin system).

 

much respect.

Ditto…

I find this refreshing #1.

I have the luxury

Of experiencing classic longboards and the revolution.

My first thought was the stringer less boards ridden and the feel.

Yeah I maintain an open mind.

Can’t say much other than

It is the feel, perhaps we have lost something.

My quest, Flex and (more over) rebound interest me.

I have tried parabolic stringers and the search…

Well, it continues.

I’ll be watching’ GOOD STUFF!

 

be shaping in hour or so…

Outline 

5’8 1/2" x 18 1/2" x ?

Aim:-

rocker, back 3/4 of rail line rocker,22ft radius of a circle, with kick about 8" up (or channels)

low steady nose rocker, low nose flip.

In the pic of the outline, I have not added the hip, I’ll add it after the bottom concaves are added. To give a nice spiral vee…

Planer cover removed so eps beeds don’t melt together, cause stones and streach the belt… ya get used to it haha

 


thinking, instead of tail flip, channels?

… what ya reckon?

… anyone??

…or maybe flow outline through also, and add deeper channels to compensate. straight outline style.???

channels for break and grip…

Lets rock.

 

Flex interests me also.  

George Gall (PlusOne) offered his insights about flex a while back:

http://www.swaylocks.com/comment/497273#comment-497273

PlusOneShaper wrote:

Great question.  I think a LOT about Flex in Surfboards…  …I’ve had arguments with reputable shapers, saying “boards don’t flex” but my training tells me otherwise, in fact EVERYTHING is a spring, even a rock, even water, especially MOVING water (or You, moving across water (a relative intertial frame shift for discussion’s sake.))  First, and I don’t mean to be a smart ass, but nomenclature is Longitudinal for lengthwise flex, also called Straight Bending.  Bending from rail-to-rail is Lateral, or I’ve heard some call it “curling” on surfboards is less understood (until the introduction of “parabolic,” or “perimetric” stringers.)  The twist, as mentioned is Torsion.  All 3 bending modes are important, and I have tested and validated what I thought was desireable (THANK GOD FOR 1" WIDE CARBON GRAPHITE TAPE.)  I’ve placed tape in various directions on boards, to completely/partially lock out discrete bending modes.  eg. glass on 1" carbon tape at 45 deg X’s on a board to lock out Torsion.  (90 for Lateral, etc.)  This is where I got in a LOT of HOT water with some kneeboard builders, firmly convinced the twist is what made their boards go, but in general I’ve found Torsion to be the enemy.  Surfboards (thin ones especially,) will bog down with they twist too much.  Surfboards are glass in such a way to leave them wide open for too much torsion, the cloth comes off the rolls at 0/90 since the beginning.  The 0 deg, or “warp direction” is good for Longitudinal control (of bending.)  (90 or “fill direction” is good for Lateral control.)  Most boards do not have cloth at 45 degrees, thus are wide open to twist and non-immediate rebound.  You will benefit with “off axis” glassing, that’s been done for decades, I’ve met success with it, but be careful, if you do -20 deg with one pull, it is suggested to do a compliment of some sort (I don’t mean, “hey bro, good job,”) to counter the single offset behavior.  That said, I’ve done a lot of building on Asymmetrics with asymetric layups to promote certain behaviors and to block out others.

http://www.swaylocks.com/comment/497387#comment-497387

PlusOneShaper wrote:

I relate.  To create flex (in a surfboard) a load must be applied to it.  In most cases we create flex from the rider inputs.  Changes in direction create acceleration (sometimes referred to as “G-Forces”) in order to go in the new direction.  Our bodies want to keep going the old direction, so we feel the force of change through our legs.  The applied load is through our feet to the board (at 2 points.)  Of course, these 2 point loads VARY fore/aft (longitudinally) and left/right (laterally.)  

To promote flex in the board there are a ton of ways to do it.  One of the less obvious but most common is to make a thinner board (thinking HP shortboards that Pros ride.) Board flex with respect to its’ thickness is a cubic factor (assuming Simple Beam Theory.)  For example if you double the thickness of a board, it’s NOT twice as stiff, it’s actually 2-cubed, or EIGHT times stiffer.  There are other things to consider like Slenderness Ratio and scaling factors, so as you go 1/4" thinner the board is even more flexible in the next 1/4" thinner, but in general you get the idea, “If you want it to bend, thin it out.”

To promote flex you can also use different materials, under this category I’ll also put “material placement.”  I alluded to what I’ve been doing (using off-axis glassing) and locking up flex in other degrees of freedom, like torsion.  You can also use lower modulus fabrics, like Innegra, or higher performance bi-directional fabrics, like Carbon Graphite depending upon the goal one is seeking.  By the way Carbon is an Engineer’s favorite composite because it is bi-directional, its’ tensile strength is just about equal to its’ compressive strength (in a viable matrix,) UNLIKE fiberglass which has tensile strength close to Carbon, but almost no compressive strength.  Kevlar is like this too, but has MUCH higher tensile strength than either Glass or Carbon.  In general, you can stack fabric patches where you want stiffness, and minimal, off-axis fabric where you want more flex.  Likewise you can use different foam (or other cores) to promote flex.  I mentioned using iFoam has been very interesting.  There are other foams which exhibit good elastic properties as well.

Here is a very interesting thing that happened a few years ago, I built a board with variable flex.  I was doing a bit of SUP with a couple of guys when it was small. One of the guys was Jim Weir who owns a company called ULI boards (inflatable SUPs.)  He calls me over to his little Jeep and as he’s inflating it and he says “Watch this” and he stands on it between two milk crates and the 14 ft air-filled race board is holding his weight.  Got me thinking.  Roll ahead a few months and I meet Rouven Brauer (Bufo) who owns HydroFlex.  So we end up building the first SUP from iFoam with NO stringer (the shape was like a wet noodle on the shaping racks, ha) and a hard external (minimal 4s glass job.  Long story short, Bufo’s boards gain strength by applying internal air pressure.  He has a Schrader Valve (tire valve) potted into the board and a small bike pump is used to pressurize the board.  His focus at the time was to prevent dents and buckles.  What I was after was to make a “floppy” large board and find out the behavior as I added pressure to the board.  (NOTE: EPS breathes air (and water,) and iFoam breathes air but NOT water (like Gortex) and PU sorta breathes air, and water, slowly.)  I was very surprised to find how much influence internal pressure has on surfing characteristics (and for SUP, paddling characteristics too.)  I found that no pressure SUCKED, the board plowed in all phases.  On the other end of the scale, too much pressure SUCKED as well, the board would lock in a turn and I’d end up face down splatting in a bottom turn.  But the best part was I found there was an ideal pressure for that one floppy board, it really became lively, and sprang out of turns.  Higher pressure paddled better.  (This is good to know for Racer boards.)

Finally, I came up with a stringer set up which mimiced the optimal flex of the inflatable board.  Enter Robb Green (but that’s another story I’ll save,) and the boards work great without having to do the pressure-proof skin and valve stuff.  I liken it to the Hotrodders who bag their cars, then leave it at one setting, eventually going over to coil springs and removing all the other supporting gear.

… thats a lot to read hahaha.

ok.

ta :slight_smile:

Check again.  

I added even more while you were responding.

George Gall was kind enough to answer my questions about flex in his Shapers Hot Seat thread.  The stuff I added last was the answer I was most interested in.

Long but worth the read.

was just joking about long read.

Thanks heaps… talk soon.

ta.

I decided to run the outline curve off the tail at a consistant 9.5’ radius ark, bringing the pod to 8.5" (wide as fuk, but, who cares).

… mmm 

The concave (as seen off the template in the pics) is, 13’ ark (rail to rail) right through the board… except the front 12" of the nose, that goes into flat…

No more hip, intended.

No more tail flip, required.

… now, some wacked out channels to remove foam from the tail to give back foot ‘drive’ (for lack of a better word). Also to break all those straight lines out back, thinking, it’s going to need it…

channels will add stiffness, so, flex will suffer… they will add strength and planing area… so

…moving on…


time to do deck and rails…

Because it will be a light weight eps board, pinched rails are a go.

Other then that, maybe a bit more foam in the tail end, as the chaneels will strip some float out. But, not much.

… beer time 6:30pm here.

CHEERS

Thats it, for today.

Back into it tomorrow.

rails, channels, then

Add required carbon for flex pattern… 

… ? still open.



Lookin’ good York!

yorky,

Curious.  Do you have any idea what the XPS foam density is for your stringer?