Hot-wiring my own blank, rocker profile, how thick? Please help!

General Discussion
1

Benny, Paul J, Resinhead, Taylor O, Thrailkill… Bueler… anyone… ???

OK guys, I have a (probably basic) question for ya. I did a search throught the archives and couldn’t find a suitable answer to my questions. Therefore, I put my faith in your wisdom and experience. Please keep in mind, these will be my first “scratch-built” boards. And they will be the first boards of any kind I’ve done all on my little lonesome. I shaped two boards, way back in my teens, from Clark blanks (I believe) under the tutelage of my uncle George in Cali.

I have a block of eps from which I’m going to hot-wire out a few blanks. For my first, I’m going with a 6’8" pintail/funboard-ish thing. My target dimensions are going to be roughly: 6’8" x 12.5" x 19.5" x 14.5" x 2.5". It’s going to be a single stringer (5/8" planed pine. Too thick? Too stiff?). So I’ve procured all of my basic materials and I was going to start drawing out my two identical rocker templates (btw I used the Acushaper software to get my dimensions), when I realized, as I was laying out my strips of hardboard, that if I hotwired the foam down to the actual size/thickness of the target rocker profile, I’d have nothing left to shape.

So, my questions are;

When hot-wiring your own blank do you add some fractions of inches to the thickness of your overall rocker profile (hardboard template), both deck and bottom, so that you’ll end up with something to shape? And what about the rails for my outline? Should I leave some extra material there too to be shaped (i.e, oversize my outline hardboard template)? I plan on having a slightly domed deck and (hopefully) a simple, single concave bottom on this sucker. I’m going at the shaping old-school (no compsand or vac-bagging) with a bosch planer and sureform/grinder, sanding pads, etc. I am ready to cut my templates and start hotwiring, but I’d like to get some wisdom on this before I start. I thought that adding a half-inch to the rocker template on both the deck and bottom would be about right to give me some “slack” to shape, so I’d hot-wire my blank down to 3.5" @ center (or would that produce too much foam mowing?).

Well, now that brings up another question. Should I just hot-wire out a uniform 3.5" blank following along the shape of my bottom rocker line and taper my nose and tail with the planer, or should I follow the rocker template when hotwiring and taper the blank at the nose and tail during this step? And if I go this way, do I leave some extra material at the nose and tail (thickness-wise, 1/2" deck, 1/2" bottom) to be shaped with the planer as well?

P.S. - I live in an apartment and I’ve completely covered the extra bedroom in painter’s plastic and blue tarp so the least amount of planer/mowing would be best, but I’ll do whatever it takes to get these boards done. My neighbors are cool and want to see my finished products anyway. We’re all artsy-farsty around here. So that’s cool.

I know, lots of questions in one post, but I want to do this right. I’m axious to get started, but I don’t want to start out on the wrong foot. Any help would be a Godsend.

`A`ohe lokomaika`i i nele i ke pâna`i.
No kind deed has ever lacked its reward.

Thanks a bunch guys,

J.D.

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I’d say get your rocker template relatively close to your final thickness profile. Make the bottom exactly what you want, with a little extra thickness in the top. After the hotwire, the bottom will have little ripples on it from the wire which you are going to have to smooth out. In the past, I have then cut out the outline after drawing the lines with a template. Paper templates work, barely. Hardboard templates, for me, are really a necessity. If you are in an apartment, realize that eps beads get everywhere, so the less you have to remove the better. Be sure to have a shopvac handy for cleanup.

What density eps are you using? Is it this new fancy water resistant eps that I’ve been hearing about? If it’s the old style that sucks water like a bastard when you get a ding I would say that straight eps/epoxy is a pain in the but, and go for some kind of skin/waterproof rail. I’m not a fan of repairs, but I have a tendency to hit rocks a lot, and do lots of them. The eps/epoxy longboard I made had the most dings that sucked water into the core. Just something to think about.

Good luck with your project. Take pics, post them, and perhaps someone with more experience than me will chime in as well.

Pat

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Super,

Thanks for the reply. Yeah that’s what I was kinda thinkin’. Get my bottom rocker close to what it will ultimately be and allow a bit for the hotwire riplpes, that’s why I was thinkin about leavin a little extra on the bottom. Plus I’m doin a concave bottom and domed deck thing, but that could come out of the top technically.

So I was just about about to trace out my rocker temp on hardboard when I though “Shit, this temp is what I want the FINISHED shape to look like. Duh.” So I think I’ll trace out my target rocker on my hardboard and add a bit to the bottom (1/4" ?) and also a bit to the deck line (maybe 1/2") to take into acount the dome/concave. Does that sound right? Looks about right on my hardboard.

Thanks brah,

J.D.

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Super,

Also, no I mis-lead you. I’m actually not using EPS at all, I’m using XPS, but I didn’t want to mention that in my first post because I knew it would open a whole new line of discussions that I’ve already gone over in the past. The deal is, I got a bunch of this stuff, tons of it, from my employer for free, so I’m going to use it up on my first few (10 or 15 boards). Plus I live in the NW so I’m not worried too much about excessive heat causing delam. But, anyway, you’re right about the “snow”. And yeah I do have a shopvac setup connected to my Bosch. I’m actually more concerned about the noise. But I already know my neighbors and they’re cool with it as long as I’m not mowing too late into the night on the weekdays :slight_smile: Now my landlord, that’s another situation all together, he has no idea what I’m using my spare bedroom for. I hope it remains that way. So, shhhh, don’t tell any one… :slight_smile:

Thanks,

J.D.

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Sweet. Have fun. I’m still in the minimal shaping of a close tolerance hotwire shape camp.

If you haven’t already, check out Oneula’s posts. He has done a lot with xps, and getting a good bond to glass. Good luck!

Pat

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It sounds loke you might be too far along for this board, but maybe for the next , an idea. I don’t know about your neighborhood, but down is So Cal, there are companies that will sell you the foam, and hotwire your profile for free. I use a company called Foamation in Burbank. I e-mail them the cad drawing, and two days later, I pick it up. Just got two blanks cut for $80.00, tax included. $40.00 each already hotwired perfectly! Look in your local phone book under architectural foam, or google it. That was Marko’s main business before they started adding surfboards.

With the computer, you can make sure the various radii transition smoothly. Avoid those flat spots and bumps. Remember that the skin will add to the thickness. two layers of corcell are 1/4" Also remember that your thickness is before you carve out the concave. A 2 1/2" thick board with 1/4" concave needs to be hotwired at least 2 3/4".

Sorry in advance if I’m overthinking it again.

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Superfat,

Thanks bro. You made me double-think my plan. Which is a good thing.

So, now after a cup of coffee, I realize that 1/4" on the bottom of my rocker temp and 1/2" on the deck is waaaaay too much, I think that’s what you were trying to tell me. My planer can take off as little a 1/32" per pass and the hotwire “ripples” won’t be much more than that right? OK, I feel like an idiot. Least I caught myself before I wasted my hardboard on that thick-ass template I was thinking of. Plus after spackle and glassing it will probably be thicker than my intended thickness anyway. Hmmmm.

That’s why I read these posts every day. Thanks all-ya-all.

J.D.

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Since you are hot wiring you might attempt something that will allow you to slice big wedges off the top of the rail crown. It’ll really cut down on the noise and mess. Use a fan and open some windows.

http://www.swaylocks.com/forum/gforum.cgi?post=370363

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Yeah! Oneula, or Benny; he’s given me many, many tips already. And you’re right about his experience with XPS. He’s actually the one that told me to just go for it with this stuff. He said, “It’s free? Use it. Make as many boards as you can with it, shape 'em, ride 'em and have fun.” He’s actually told me that he likes the feel of XPS for it’s snap and response (citation may be needed here, but I believe it was Oneula) if you can deal with the delam and gassing aspects of it. Of which I don’t anticipate a problem here in the frigid NW. :slight_smile:

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Nothing wrong with XPS just don’t try to start a business using it. They aren’t reliable enough to sell. I get my blanks as close as I can. I’m going to fine sand a bit so you need that room but not more than that. The wire is truer than you can shape so the closer you get the better. And less work and foam dust everywhere. My blanks were always within 1/8th.

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Yeah man, thanks for the advice. I had thought about having blanks cut for me in the past, but then my boss hooked me up with all the foam I could use in the next year or more, so I decided to go with the total home-built, from-scratch method. I know pre-cut blanks are economical when you consider the amount of time spent fabricating everything you need to make your own, plus the amount of time invested in coming up with a suitable method, but that’s me man, I like to de-construct stuff and try to do it myself. Plus all my material is free. So if I screw it all up, all I’ve wasted is time and I wouldn’t even consider that a waste 'cause at least then I’ve learned how NOT to build a surfboard :)- ya dig?

Thanks though man, if I get too frustrated, I might take you up on that advice. But for now, it’s back off to the mad science lab (my spare bedroom).

Laters,

J.D.

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Mr. Loehr,

Wow! I’m in the midst of greatness. And I mean that with true respect. I’ve watched you’re vids and learned so much, thank you! Thanks for that imput BTW, and yeah, I wouldn’t think of selling anything I make, these will be just for me and my friends. I just wanna make the best boards I can with what I have, and the free-er the bet-ter, LOL. I’ll eventually buy a block of 2# EPS and shape outta that, but for now, I wanna hone my skills on this free stuff.

I would eventually love to try your Timberflex approach, I’ve been watching that thread very closely. I got interested in the “Compsand” thing with Bert B.'s old Vac-Bag post and studied that for weeks. You’ve taken that approach to the next level. And made it easier for us garage or “spare bedroom apartment” guys to do it ourselves.

Anyways, back to my project, it seems the consensus is to hotwire that sucker to as close to my target numbers as possible, then finish it up and after surfacing it (sanding, spackling, etc.) and glassing it, it will probably be close to what I intended. Did I get this right? I’m not trying to make this more difficult than it should be am I?

Thanks to all,

J.D.

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My blanks were always dead on. I bit of concave between the fins, some roll to the deck, turn the rails, done.

Timberflex is your next step. Best board you can build , by far. IMHO when the guys here begin to build these things no one will build anything else. Easy, beautiful, durable and green.

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John,

I had tought of that technique. After some searches throught the archives I found this thread: http://www.swaylocks.com/forum/gforum.cgi?post=255272;search_string=rail%20hot%20wire;#255272

Is this what you’re talking about? It really would save alot of mess and noise. If this works you’d only have a minimal amount of planing to do and some hand sanding. Seems like a good idea for someone in my situation. I hope that’s the right thread. The railband hotwire I saw is adjustable so you can set it at diffrent degrees, add a carpenter’s square to run along the deck/bottom of your board and Shazam! Acurately, and symmetrically hot-wire cut railbands with little mess and all you have to do a finish shaping on them. Anyone tried this? That railband tool wouldn’t be hard to make out of some MDF and a protractor.

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Mr. Loehr

I might be a little behind the times but I’ve already watched your vids on conventionally shaped (old-school?) boards (that’s were I’m at now), and I’ve been following the Timberflex threads as much as I can. Did I miss it, or are you going to give us an in-depth how-to video on the Timberflex process as well? I’d pay good money for a step-by-step, real-time breakdown of that.

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Haavard’s tapered rail band tool that John Mellor referenced is the way for DIY’ers to go. Getting the rail volume,

rail foil, and deck dome correct are going to be the hardest thing on a first-time shape. Haavard’s tool gives you

a big head-start on all three. If you read that thread, you’ll see where we all recommend reading Barnfield’s "Tapered

Rail Band’’ thread before you do any of this. You can use Haavard’s tool to do the big primary band, then planer and

block for the rest of the bands.

Re the thickness. stay very close to finish, unless you want planer practice. Be careful, and slow, with the planer on that

big stringer. Plane only with the grain to avoid explosions.

edit to add that XPS tears a lot with blades in the planer. The grit drums work better on that foam. Like GL, I won’t get

near the stuff anymore, so I completely forgot about the tearing. But if it’s free anda home-build, go with it.

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one trick I’ve seen is to make your templates a little bit longer than your billet due to down presure on the hotwire. That way it enter and exits nice and clean.

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Hi Bad Houdini -

The adjustable “C” arm hot wire jig is perfect. The trick is in pushing it along and manging to get a clean cut. That is true with all of them.

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Easternpacific,

Yeah, you’re right about the template thing, I saw Greg L doing that in one of his shaping vids, but I completely forgot about it 'till you mentioned it. Damn! I’ve outlined my rocker on my hardboard and forgot about the extra bits @ the the nose and tail. Well, I’ll go ahead and cut it out as is and trace it onto a new piece of hardboard and this time allow for the extra bits. At least I can still use this first one for my stringer template :slight_smile: Thanks for reminding me about that.

And thanks everyone for your posts and advise, you answered a bunch of questions for me. If all goes well I’ll get a few blanks hotwired out this weekend.

Much Respect to all,

J.D.

P.S. - Is that 3/4" planed pine stringer too thick? I’ve also got some strips of birch doorskin that I ripped down to 12" x 8’. I could glue up a few of these together to get a 1/4" or 1/2" stringer instead. Whadaya think? Thanks again.

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Already on you tube for free. Look up WMD compsand on you tube.