How can I seal an XPS Skimboard blank to glass it with Poly?

Hey guys I signed up because people around here seem like they know what they’re talking about unlike other forums full of idiots trolling when they could just as easily help.

So, my brother has a few gallons of polyester resin and I made a Skimboard blank out of XPS(Extruded PolyStyrene).

I was thinking I could laminate it with a layer of epoxy resin to avoid melting the foam with the poly. (Would this in theory work, or would the poly still do something through the layer of epoxy?)

Anyway, alI can find in Kern County is a $15 set of two 4oz. bottles of resin/catalyst. So to get it fully covered would cost about $45 and that’s just not cool.

Is there an alternative sealer I could use that’s not thick and heavy or expensive?

If not, could you please link me to the cheapest pints of epoxy resin?

I appreciate any input!

if you lam the board with epoxy you can do a hotcoat with poly but you will need the sand down the lam with some 80 or 100 grit first

i would not advise doing this because it will only have a mechanical bond and will eventually flack off

off the top of my head i can not think of any way to seal the blank so you can lam with the poly but either way you should just do the whole board with epoxy

Epoxy is just so damn expensive.

What exactly do you mean by only a mechanical bond? What would an epoxy-> XPS bond be considered?

 

Mechanical bond is that poly bonding into the groves of the lamination, compared to a chemical bond which bonds to the resin which makes it much stronger. Poly and epoxy will not chemicaly bond together. you could probably do a whole skim board with 48 oz of epoxy resin.

 

Come on, a skimboard doesn’t need that much epoxy. If you want it cheap, don’t do a hot or glosscoat. There is no need to fill the holes when using XPS, the foam is waterproof

(you also don’t need a mirror finish, search why there are dimples in a golf ball)

stoke is already here, just seeing the shape of it is hyping me!

 

:shrug: I’m 17, so it is kind of expensive for me. The cheapest I’ve found is like $40 for a quart + the hardener cost.

Can you recommend some that dries clear?

My attempt at making a board last year was thwarted because my brother decided to drop the project and I ended up trying to use fiberglass mat that he was using to build bodies for '32 fords. Used half my bottle in one layer then gave up :(, It also dried to a nasty yellow.

 

Also,How does a hot coat apply to epoxy? From what I’ve read, a hot coat refers to a coat of poly heating up because of the reaction to the catalyst. 

It’s just the coat that’s applied directly to the foam to seal it, right?

 

 

 

You can also paint it with about 5 coats of bullseye primer sealer. Then just laminate it with poly.  Don't sand through, and don't under catalize the resin so it sits un-kicked for more than 15 minutes.

 

But..and a huge sagging big butt, if you do not do this perfect, it will melt the foam.  

 

Usually these type of project done on the cheep with Homedepot materials turn out just like they cost.  It will be a good experience for you, you will learn a lot for your next attempt.

 

Post pictures so we can cheer, laugh, and cry.

Where is Kern County ,(Florida ) ?  Yes at 17 maybe epoxy seems to expensive but remember your time is also worth something. If you spend the time to make something that does not work then you have wasted the time and money for materials. For what you are doing epoxy is the right material and its harder to screw up with epoxy because you have a lot of working time. If you can not find epoxy localy you can mail order it. $ 40 is not to much to invest in something you will be able to use. If your going to do something you may as well learn to do it right.. And doing it right the first time will go a long way in Knowlege for future projects. Resin Reserch, Aerialite, Systems Three, West system, MAS are all good epoxys. Look around and see what you can find then let us know then you can move on to the next step. Again, where is Kern County ?

kern county, california.

Well last year I ordered a quart from here, I believe it was the 635 system. But it turned out really yellow and the board just got ruined in other ways. I want a clear finish to show the art Im going to add underneath.

Trouble is, they sell the West System 105 resin in either a quart($31) or gallon ($80), 

Im pretty sure I would need more than a quart for the 5 layers im planning on putting on my board, So Id have to order a gallon.

As for the hardener .66 pints is $30 and 1.3 quarts is $60

So I’d need to spend like $140 on resin alone to make sure I have enough.

I can't find any other online shops that sell in smaller increments though, Can you recommend some?

Kern County = Bakersfield-ish.    You should hook up with Huckleberry.    He’s pretty enthusiastic and outgoing.  He’d probably be glad to help you out a bit.  He knows where to get stuff.  

BTW, if you look around you can get surf-specific epoxy resin kits for about $100, and that’s for enough to do a couple full-sized boards.  

 

I’ve never tried it, but there’s another option:  

Supposedly you can use a light urethane lamination to “seal” the blank and come back with your poly resin to do the remainder of your fiberglass lams and finish.  Solarez sells a UV-cure urethane (I believe) resin for this.  It goes right on the EPS without burning it.

The link below shows them using this resin cut with filler to laminate a 2oz layer of cloth to seal the blank.  You apply it inside and away from the sunlight, and then walk it out into the sunlight for a couple minutes to make it kick.  From there you glass as normal with your other resin, as if it were a regular blank.    It’s $26/quart but you should be able to seal a couple boards with that much if you’re careful not to waste a lot.  

http://solarez.com/productsnew/zerovocqt.html

http://solarez.com/productsnew/zerovocqt.html

 

that…seems way too good to be true. How can it be?

Is it only usable as the first layer?

This stuff isn’t any cheaper than the regular surfboard epoxies.  I’ve been getting my epoxy for less than $100/gallon and I’m already keeping the amounts I waste really low.  

 As I said, I have no experience with the stuff nor have I read any outside reviews involving a 100% lamination using this stuff.    I talked with Gary a while back and he showed me a board that had been sealed (w/light lam) with this stuff and then finished with his UV vinylesther resin - that board looked and felt great.  

What I will say is that the cost of materials for an EPS/epoxy board isn’t that much more than with conventional PU/PE construction.  The big factor seems to be the extra time and hassle involved with using epoxies as well as the fact that most of the finished boards don’t have the similar feel as PU/PE boards.   

EDIT: Actually could I just use this UV cure polyester from solarez, or would it possible be a little weaker?

It’s apparently laminating resin, Does that mean it wouldn’t make a good glassing resin?

http://solarez.com/productsnew/polygallon.html

 

Well I guess not, I was just discounting the hardener.

Can you recommend an ultraclear polyester resin?

I was going to use my brother’s but it’s deep brown

Is this the place people usually order stuff or is there another with better prices?

http://www.shopmaninc.com/polyesters.html

http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/Product_Catalog/Epoxy/epoxy.html#RR-Epoxy

Order the 3 quart kit,it comes with 2 quarts of resin and 1 quart of hardener.Mix rtio is 2:1 resin:hardener.Glass and finish coat your board with epoxy.I can glass a 6’ surfboard and hotcoat it with 3 quarts and have some leftover.You can use the resin research CE or call and ordr the kwick kick.They also have divinycell foam which is what you should be using instead of xps.

I literally just ordered a gallon of UV cure vinyl-ester and a quart of UV cure Epoxy from Solarez haha.

Total came out to $98 O.O Shelf life is about 2 years on the gallon, so hopefully I’ll have a good amount left over to make some better boards in the future.

thanks for the recommendation anyhow, I bookmarked that one.

 

Umm, one thing about the UV vinylesther resin - it’s a laminating resin and it sets tacky.  That means it will gum up a lot when you go to sand it.  You can hot coat with it and sand it but you need to add some sanding agent to that finish coat in order for it to set hard enough to sand cleanly.  Sanding agent is cheap and you don’t need to use much of it.  You can probably order it from the link Jesus provided.  

What else is it commonly called? Youre not talking about microballoons or shredded glass are you?

I cant find anything called sanding agent on that website.

Is it just that type of resin or have you used this one before?

http://solarez.com/productsnew/epogallon.html

[quote="$1"]

What else is it commonly called? Youre not talking about microballoons or shredded glass are you?

[/quote]

I think the sanding agents gdaddy is talking about is styrene and wax mixture.....however this mix is used for poly hoatcoats. No Idea if this applies to vynilester resin.

Microballons and shredded glass (cabosil?) are fillers. They literally turn resin into paste which then hardens.

Also, hotcoat is not PE resin specific. The primary function of hotcoats is to fill the weave, the fact that it gets hot is a byproduct. For hotcoating, the PE resin is generally heavily catalyzed to speed up gelling and stop it running off the lamination/glass, hence it gets hot because of the increased rate of polymerization (chem reaction).

So you can also "hotcoat" with epoxy...however it might not be "hot" (depending on the technique), but it will fill the weave all the same.

You speak of art work under the glass...err um.   Epoxy is not your best friend for this endevor.   epoxy will froth up from being over worked..especially on the rail laps.  Do not over work. Pour it on, spread it out slowly....walk away for 10-15 minutes, then come back and laminate...and laminate only once, or twice...don't keep running the squeegee around on the board.

 

Also you can laminate up to 3 layers of glass at one time. You do not have to do one layer at a time, one layer at a time is a waste of epoxy, and makes a dam heavy board.