I know what it says on the RR website, but I was wondering what peoples’ actual experience of Kwik Kick gel times (at given temperatures) are.
I’ve plenty of experience of polyester so I’m used to beasting myself to get those laps down etc. but I was quite attracted by the prospect of working at a more civilised ‘epoxy’ pace. My concern is that Kwik Kick will see me beasting myself again. Realise that RR 2000 is slower, but apparently inferior in terms of strength.
Also, if there are any other particulars of working with Kwik Kick that your good selves are willing to share, I’d be grateful.
It’s not that fast. You won’t be “beasting” yourself to get the laps down at least.
I’ve never read that 2000 is “inferior in terms of strength”… Where’d you hear that?
As far as working with KK. I didn’t like the stuff.
In fact, after glassing 1 board with it, the rest of the kit has only been used for fin boxes, leash plugs, and under cork skins.
My issue with KK is that it’s too thick. It was hard for me to lam with it. I had to really push it around which led to frothing.
Some people like it for hotcoats due to it’s thickness and it’s ability to stay where you put it but, I still prefer 2000 for that…
I’m a HUGE fan of 2000 or CE fast or whatever it’s called. Not so much a fan of KK.
Take my comments with a whole bag of salt tho, I’ve only glassed 8 boards. All with Resin Research.
One thing I like to do with RR is to microwave the resin before mixing in the hardner. I heat it up in small increments (10 seconds) until it doesn’t bubble from stirring. This also tends to speed up the kick time and makes the resin flow easier. Win Win Win. BUT you have to get it out of the bucket asap. As soon as I do my stirring ritual, 80% gets poured out immediately on the board. Leaving just enough in the bucket for touch-ups and dry spots…
Anyway, you asked about temp. I really like glassing at about 80* - 85* F and usually can flip the board in just under 2 hours at that temp. That’s with RR Fast.
That’s helpful. Thanks. I actually got that KK was stronger than 2000 from the Loehr man himself. This from an email he kindly sent to me:
Christian,
Kwik Kick is a slightly stronger product. In fact it's the strongest resin we've ever made and the strongest room temperature cure resin we've ever seen. Post curing will always give you some advantage in strength. Use the cure schedules on our website that are for composite pro resins. They work fine for all our different systems.
Epoxy thickening more and more so it’s more and more difficult to work it but you don’t have the gel time like poly. So even with KK you have more time to work than Poly. KK is thick and became thicker faster than RR2000 so it can be harder to lam fiber, you have to spread it quickly on surface and use additif F to thin it a bit, lam in hot place. KK is tack free very quickly so you sand very fast. Lam with KK seems a bit stiffer than with RR2000.
Room temp 70-75 degrees F. That's best. The whole room at that temp not just the little cornner you are working in.
Resin Research CE resin with fast hardener. Flip time 2 to 2 1/2 hours...I've had to wait over 3 hours in cooler temps. Don't rush it,,, plan ahead. Plan for 2 1/2 hours or more...hope for the best.
Resin Research KK. Flip time about 1 1/2 hours. Your results will vary. I'm not running a glassing business so waiting a little longer to flip is OK with me.
I'm not sure why Chris is heating his resin when he is already working in a very hot workshop.
Mix up your KK. Stir slow and steady for about 3 min. Round and round. Up and down. Back and forth. Sideways and backwards. You will feel the resin start to heat up. You might even smell it starting to Exotherm. Pour the whole batch out onto the board and work it slow and steady. You will have about 15-20 min before the resin goes into B stage and starts to thicken up.....Due to the high heat and the microwave oven I think Chris' resin is going into B stage at a very fast rate...
I did not like KK at first...now it's all I use. On boards over 8 feet it helps to have a friend come over and do a 2 man tag team..............
Never thought I'd be happy summer was over. I'm happy today....See you out in the water
The only reason why my boards are even rideable is because I've listened to guys like Stingray, Resinhead, B.Barnfield, Mike Daniels, John Mellor, Keith Melville, Rooster, CJ3, Lavarat, Benny, Afoaf, Llilibell, and more that I'm probably forgetting.
My next build includes Innegra so the amount of time it takes to wet out is something I’m mindful of. I think I’ve read that Stingray has some experience with Innegra? Any thoughts on what challenges might be faced with laminating an Innegra / KK combo?
For light fiber that “float” over resin, the good way is to glue them on support with resin: paint resin then put fiber, press hard, let gel resin and fill over with fluid (hot) resin. I test it with kevlar, diolen (=xynol), and dyneema, work fine anytime.
I’ve glassed at least 100 boards exclusively with Kwik Kick from laminating through hotcoats and fin box installs. I do not feel any drawback regarding the thickness of the resin for laminating, I throw it on and lam. Hotcoats are great with the thicker KK resin compared to 2000CE.
I teach a lot of guys and gal to build boards and we use KK in the program. For first timers I tell them to quickly spread it out all over the bottom (or deck), keep all the resin on the board, then saturate the laps completely by pulling the resin off the bottom onto the overhanging glass. KK is nice because even when it starts to thicken you can still push it through the cloth and slap those laps over. Done it a bunch of times on longboards on hot days. First few times I freaked but learned to relax and trust the resin will do it’s job. Way more forgiving than poly gelling and game over. That’s happened to me more than once and had to tear the glass off fast and start over.
Bottom line, choose either KK or 2000 CE for lams, definitely KK for hotcoats (so why not lam with it too and get the extra strength it offers?)
I agree Brian. I thought when we designed KK it would be the only resin used after a time especially with the pro builders. Stronger, faster and I love the way I can move it after it thickens a bit and then it won’t move. Makes it so when I rack the board I know it’s done and won’t drain or puddle anywhere even on noses and tails. But laminators don’t like to change their work patterns even to one that easier. They want to push the resin in instead of letting the resin do the work. We sell lots of the stuff, it is popular and for hot coating it’s used by just about everyone. But many think CE is easier and it’s still the best seller because of that. I haven’t used anything but KK since we developed it. I know it makes the best boards.
Just laminate my new board with a new batch of KK from seabase. I find the resin more fluid and easier to work with than my last batch. At 27°C i turn the board just a bit more than 1hour after finish one side, scrap wrinkles in nose and tail with razor blade, perfect…
I’ve done longboards at 90 F with no problem. It gets a little thick at the end but if you get your laps up you can still move it fine. After 30 years of epoxy work I did like that casual pace too but once I got this stuff sussed I just really liked all the aspects. Like Lemet said at 85F I’m flipping the things in an hour. If I do a rack of just four boards I can finish number 4 and then flip, sand and cut the cloth on number 1 right now. The work flow is that nice. It also is reliable down to about 40 - 45F. We had days in FL where the poly guys were going home and we were still working. That’s pretty good for epoxy.
hope in the near future you would have a decent chain or distributors round the world not only in a few countries and with a price we (us) the poly guys can pay (a fear price)
Epoxy is no more expensive to use than poly. You just use so much less, generally about 1/2 the amount. Been doing this a long time. If what is scheduled to happen in CA next year actually does happen there won’t be polyester there anymore. Epoxy is the only answer at this point. We’ll see what happens but the industry has gone from under 5% epoxy to over 50% in the last 6 years. There seems to be a trend. But S. America so far is proving to be challenging. Import regulations, especially Brazil, are very restrictive. Hopefully that changes.