how to build a surf mat?

General Discussion
21

The glue has never failed.  Ive tried other glues and they do fail.

 If you can’t find that brand name in Cali then go to your local inflatable boat builder and tell him what you’re doing and ask if you can buy some of the glue he uses. Or first, just ask what glue he uses and he might tell you the name and then Google search for that.

 Like I said, it’s probably under a different name in another country. You’re going to need to be  resourceful and use a bit of guile and cunning.

Google " inflatabe boat glue", search for a maker of those huge inflatable gorillas they use for advertising or inflatable jumping castles, call up a retailer who sells inflatable boats and say you have one that needs a repair. Google “waterproof glues” and “adhesive importers”, or “two part PVC glue”. Like I said, it took me months to find the right glue.

 For a while I was using the double sided tape they use to make yacht sails, its good but not as good as the glue.

The air vents can be ordered from a company in Germany, but I told them I was a river raft company looking to source a new supplier so they sent me 100 for free.
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Google ‘guile’ and be that.

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surffoils. you are a fuc#$*g genoius!!!

thanks for the information.  life changing stuff!

I can find plenty of 2 part PVC glue, that’s for sure.

So PVC glue is the most diesel stuff, even if the mat is nylon and not pvc, ay?

I guess if it will stick to non porous, slick PVC, it will stick to anything?

Also, ever mess with Haplon fabric?

thanks for all of your help!

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I get several two part glue sources when I search these strings:

two part inflatable boat glue

two part inflatable boat adhesive

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Hypalon is the material they use to make inflatable boats, so yes this glue definitely sticks to  Hypalon. The two part glue also sticks to Nylon, Polyester, PVC, but you have to test each sample first just to make sure.

This is a Hypalon mat.     Hypalon is around 800D so its bulletproof.

Its an EPS and Carbon/ Innegra solid deck, concaved out like a Turtle shell, with two seperate pontoons that can be individually inflated thru the twin blue ports on the deck.

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Hey surffoils.

ever consider using a plastic welder, instead of adhesive?

something that drips hot plastic onto the joint and welds the two together, like this?

http://www.nationaltoolwarehouse.com/Mini-Weld-Model-6-Airless-Plastic-Welder-P120753.aspx?gclid=CMeiqOjgw74CFYdrfgodZwYAxQ

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I dont think thats the right tool for this job, youre more likely to burn holes in the material. One wrong drip and the mats ruined.

 The beauty of heat welding or glueing is that it provides an almost invisible join thats uniform and repeatable. With heat welding that the commercial mat makers do, theyre joining ‘like’ to ‘like’ in a clemical bond, its a homogeneous molecular connection with nothing else added and the bond is a chemical bond not based on the properties of an added product.

 

27

interesting stuff.

what kind of tool would a commercial guy use to do such a thing?  Is it one of those huge heat welding machines that costs 14 grand and is the size of a band saw?

or is it something simple that can be used at home by a back yard builder?

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Theres info and images on the net. You need to look for this information yourself.

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Haha, sounds like poser is thinking about starting a business. Here’s mine. Just finished the other night and unfortunately not ridden yet. Enjoyed the building process so much I’m already thinking about making another one. Surffoils is way ahead of any level I’m on but I’m excited to try it out. Some of my seams are scarring me but other than that it was easy and fun.

The valve I’m using is a Boston valve. Not the best choice but it is working for now. I’ll try something else next time. I have some of that exact vinyl glue that Surfoil has but I did a test batch and it didn’t hold well for me…maybe I’ll test it again. These seams are heat sealed. The I beams are glued. Next mat will have glued I beams. 

 

 

 

 

 

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great thread !

 

  photos and useful information … just like the 'Swaylock’s  of years gone by .

 

  cheers !

 

  ben

1 Like
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monkstar1, looks great, just like a bought one but even better because you made it !! You’ve got some skills if you’re doing heat and glue joins ?! Maybe you can do a "Show and Tell "  of your heat welding setup for Poser ?

 That P.A. 5000 glue is a tricky beast, both sides have to be cleaned with MEK, which I got from the boat company for $25 but later got it from a hardware shop for $9. After cleaning each side I would leave it for an hour to dry.

 And then the glue has to be measured and mixed at an exact 25:1 ratio, I measured the length of each join, worked out the total glue volume that I would need for that join and then used syringes to get the exact proportions. 

 Here’s some pics of the glues and instructions, the MEK and the valves I’m using.

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32

nice one monkstar!

def not starting a business.  i’m a hobbyist.  i like to build all my wave riding tools.  haven’t made a single board to sell and been building them for myself for 7 years now.

can you elaborate on heat welding?  What tools/supplies did you use to do it?

all of the heat welding tools i find online are for industrial use, like ultrasonic welders, etc.  they are all thousands and thousands of dollars. 

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Sooooo  SWEET!!!

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Sure, here’s exactly what I did: I started asking questions. I found this video here:

This video is great not only for the information but it also let me hear the sound of the fabric, it’s crinkly. I then sent this video to a fabric place (rockywoods.com) and told them I wanted to make a mat like in the video. They directed me to 70D Heat Sealable Nylon fabric. http://www.rockywoods.com/Welcome-to-Rockywoods-Outdoor-Fabrics?search=heat+sealable+nylon

Unfortunately, the exact fabric I bought isn’t available now, not sure how the others would fare…

When I got the fabric I ran a test and was very excited with the results, I couldn’t pull the two pieces apart no matter how hard I pulled. So then I glued in some 200D Nylon Ripstop fabric (not heat sealable) ibeams I already had made and heat sealed the sides. An additional side note, the fabric is easy to cut with scissors or razor blade.

**So how did I heat seal? **With an iron. I ironed the sides with a new $7 iron from Walmart at the second highest setting. It was extremely easy with very minimal fumes. 

Will it work? Here’s the problem. There’s hardly any literature on the exact temp needed to get a good weld. I simply held it on for 20-30 seconds and then once it cooled I lightly tried to pull that area apart. Most of the time it worked great, other times I needed to reapply the iron. With every reapplication of the iron I was worried about ruining the composition of the material to the point of destroying it (but that never happened). I think I’m going to contact my friends at Rockywoods.com and ask them about the heat temp.

Then it came time to blow it up and test the seams. I had some leaks at first but they were easy to find and quickly got fixed with the iron. I did have a couple areas in the rails that came partially unstuck when I pushed on the mat. Again, I just reheated. I also think I didn’t wait for the welds to entirely cool and harden before I inflated it (I was excited), so that could’ve caused the pieces pulling apart. I think I might get a car inverter so I can bring an iron to the beach for quick fixes.

Overall, it was easy, quick and fun. I have more fabric and I will do it again. Especially since there’s no waves here to test out the one I already have.

I ran another test with the same exact vinyl glue Surffoils has but I was still able to rip it apart easier than the heat welds. I DID NOT however use any MEK like he does so…

If I make another mat I think I will shoot some video of the process. Let me know if there’s anything you’d like to see. 

 

35

hey Monkstar

good info.

I found 200 denier nylon heat sealable from rockywoods.  im waiting for it to come in the mail.  the key, they told me over there at rockywoods, is heat sealable.  that means air tight.  thick poly coating.

I asked them about heat sealing it, they said their customers rarely share “how to” information, but they reccomended the iron technique like you stated.  the 200 denier heat nylon is the stuff!

I also was thinking, about making a jig with a 2X4 piece of wood, as a heating surface.  I’ll use the 1.5 inch side of the wood as the surface.  that way I can get a consistent, long, straight 1.5 inch wide heat seam  with the iron.  Nice and square.

Sounds like a sweet deal right?

36

2 more thoughts :

a trusted source who works with this kind of fabric told me that PU melts at 280 degrees while nylon melts at 400 degrees.  good info to know when heating it up.

also, check these things out.

http://www.tossheatseal.com/jawbars.html

toss heat seal jaw bars.

get a 4 footer and you could clamp all edges of the mat, and then do the curved corners by hand.

not sure if that’s the right tool, but seems like it’s got potential.  bet it aint cheap though. looks tough and industrial. I like that.

 

 

37

Awesome info. 200D is going to make that mat indestructable. I remember seeing one of the other mat makers using a 200D deck and 70D bottom so I’m sure it’s possible with all 200D. Thanks for the melting points of PU and Nylon. Google tells me that the ‘linen’ setting on an iron gets to about 204 degrees so it looks like there’s no worry of melting completely. Those jawbars look interesting and sure would speed things up ( are you sure you’re not thinking of starting a business :] ). I did the poor man version of clamping two yardsticks (1 on top, 1 on bottom) with the correct amount of fabric poking through. Then I ironed what was poked through. I used a 2x4 to iron on; this also helped raise up my two pieces I was ironing. Ironing the seams was the most enjoyable part for me so I don’t want to speed it up any more than it is…for now. 

New board mat update. I was going to heat seal the Ibeams for my next mat but then realized I don’t have a way to iron the inner area without ironing the outer edges. I need the outer edges (the top and bottom of the ‘I’) to iron into the inner top and bottom. So I might glue the inner Ibeam area and iron the top/bottoms. Also, I’m having a heck of a time trying to find other mouth inflatable valves other than beach ball (surffoils) style or the boston valve (what i used). I really want what’s in that mat video in my previous post but the boston valve isn’t that bad and easy to get so i might go back to that. And this is all speculation, there still aren’t any waves so it isn’t tested. Shoot, I might not like riding a mat after trying it…

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“I might not like riding a mat after trying it…”

Doubt it. You might find em highly addicting, Unless you are surfing more for show than go.

 

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Yeah, I doubt it… :slight_smile:

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Hey Monkstar.

 

you try any dap weldwood contact cement? What kind of glue did you use for the beams on the inside?

paul gross told me to fix the mat with dap weldwood if she gets a hole.

that 2 part stuff seems like a headache.

 

i gotta think of a way to heat seal the i beams. Maybe use two pieces for each ibeam? one sealable side on each side, facing outside, each glued to deck and hull??

good to know about the linen setting!!! seems like heat sealing is the pro way to work with this material, no?

 

 

I was pissed when I bought a mat. 1st time was awful, couldn’t ride it.

put it away for 6 months, gave it another shot because i bicycle commute to work and beach. got the hang of it. Now I love!!  after a few juicy 3 foot hollow waves, i fell in love.   love cruzin on the belly.

never been so barreled. and it’s so easy. and i love how surfers have absolutely no interested in it and are actually sometimes repelled by it. funny shit.

 

nice mat pictures ace!

you are a mother F*#&$n ace for sure!

sweet waves.