How to choose your retro fish

General Discussion
1

.I have 3 slightly different retro fish, 2 with keel fins on it, and another one is a quad, I’m a shaper, 5’9" (1,74cm)) and weigh 144 lbs (70 kg).

Before the analysis of the different shapes of boards, you should always notice that other factors are extremely important when deciding to buy a surfboard, and the 3 most important ones are the rocker, width, and volume, the more volume and less rocker you have, the faster the board will go, but the lack of rocker affects its performance on hollower waves, and a lot of volume with a wide surfboard can make it be less sensitive to do turns at a higher speed. Finding that balance can be tricky and it demands a good conversation and feedback with your local shaper. 

Curvalicious model (first image)

5’4" 19 7/8" 2 7/16 - 30 liters 

Due to its outline, this one straights considerably right past the fin plug, it might not seem like much but it improves drastically for doing tighter turns at higher speeds. After riding a couple of them with different volumes and dimensions I felt that the ideal size for me is 5’4", I am 5’8" (1,74cm) with 144 lbs (70 kg), and as you increase volume it gets faster and easier to generate speed, for me 30 Liters was ideal. This board feels very performance for a retro fish.

There is an old video on youtube of this board being surfed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UJipGvyH_4

Classic Twin model (second image)

5’4" 19 7/8" 2 3/8" - 28.2 liters 

This one has a classic wide tail fish outline, it loses a bit of that “tight” pivot turning and provides more open arches. If you want a board to cruise and enjoy the line, that’s the one, but if you still want to have this fish for turns, try not to make it too big and wide, otherwise, it will be hard to “get in” to the wall of the wave, leaving it less sensible for doing turns.

Quad Fever model (third image)

5’3" 20" 2 7/16"" - 29 liters 

An absolute delight for some performance small waves surfing, the wing helps the swallow to be less wide, so it improves its pivot capacity to do turns. The quad factor still gives a lot of drive, but it feels looser compared to the keel fin, especially when doing progressive turns, you might end up losing the tail a bit if you are using small rear fins on super tight turns at high speed.

So, wrapping up, the most important thing when choosing a retro fish, is not to end up with the wrong dimensions for you, I have had a quad fish before I started shaping about 10 years ago with around 36+ liters and 21 1/2" width that I just couldn’t do turns with it, so, play with your dimensions, and especially volume right. Check for those surfboards volume calculators, they always come up in handy.

Another really important thing, if you want to have a versatile fish don’t be afraid to add a bit of nose rocker to it.

The first 3 photos will be of those boards I have talked about and feel free to take a look at some of the Retro Fish outlines that I was talking about. I have also written another post where I try to go deeper into fish surfboards here.

And also, feel free to get in touch, our surfboards are manufactured in California, Brasil, Australia, and Portugal.

https://www.1974surfboards.com/en/

I hope this was helpful, somehow.

Cheers!

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2

…GuiVilas? (GuillermoVilas? was a tennis player long time ago) anyway;

the first thing is why you have something retro and not a modern fish? or is that the term that you use when you referring a fish?

Then 7/17¿? such measurement does not exist.

Better to use them with canard quads or similar. You know converting those useless and tracking keel fins on 4 fins but with the same keel area.

Go to the archives and check the “modern fish thread”

3

hahaha not related to the tennis player, definetly not the fisrt time i have heard that. Wow i have not seen the wrong measurement, obviously thats not 7/17, its 3/16, i cant find where to edit the post nowhere, anyways.

Definetly any variations of a fish nowadays can ge easily called a modern fish, but obviously a Steve Lis looking outline with a keel fin on it is a worldwide known “retro fish”, the main difference between a modern and a retro fish its the amount of rocker and width you put on then, a more straight fish with more rocker will perform like a modern surfboards, while less rocker and those wide swallow tails will provide that drive and open archs that these modern ones kind of lack. 

But its not rocket science, in the end, you gotta go with whatever floats your boat. I just wanted to point some things as i am a huge fish fan (still think that its one of the most good looking and functional outlines) and a lot od people end up asking some questions about them that i just wanted to explain, and heard from you guys, a little bit.

 

4

And here is where you lost me   

“the 2 important ones are the rocker and volume…”

 

5

The less amount of bottom rocker you have, the faster it will go, since it creates less friciton with the surface of the wave ( just check out how fast alaia surfboards go, even though they have no volume and fins).  WIth volume its kind of the same thing, the more you have, the more buoyancy it will have, which helps to generate faster response in smaller surf, putting in words, thats at least what i felt when i was tweaking and riding my own surfboards. 

6

…alright, but you are a bit late to the party; we discussed what s a modern fish etc long time ago; then, also long time ago too we had this thread (the one that I mentioned)

check it out:

https://www.swaylocks.com/forums/thee-modern-fish-thread

Still there are a few members, that are in this forum almost since day one. 1999 early 2000. I am here since 2001. Then the forum shut down and started all over again in April or so 2004 (you will see several members icons that say that are registered in 2004 but a few joined before)

7

Interesting basic info.  I’m not a Fish type person, but good info for readers who need a little basic knowledge about how to fit a board to your size and ability.  So many people don’t take into consideration the basics you have outlined.  Yes the Fish has been talked to death on this website and their are many who love ‘em.  I was over them when they went around the first time (60’s — 70’s).

8

Hi again reverb, before I post this I really tried to find some sort of related article in the forum but couldn’t find at the time, this post that u have shared  really have a good discussion going on about that, but I just tried to show some basics info as the title kind of give the hint, but if I have posted it at the wrong section, just let me know that I cm try to move it, anyway, just trying to contribute back to this forum as I have learn SO MUCH on the shaping section before I started shaping my own boards.

9

Exactly, that was the focus of this post, as the title kinds of give it away, it’s more outlined for the the intermediate surfer who wants to choose a fish but struggles with the endless outlines and fin configurations, even for me, I really had to shape and use all of this boards shown so I could say those things with conviction, cheers!

10

Those are some nicel lookin boards!  Very clean.  

11

Thanks man, really appreciate it.

12

Gui;  Your boards look great, and I appreciate your comitment to the design.  I have been doing fish & fish style boards (thanks, reverb) since they were designed as kneeboards.  You have forgotten the most important part of shaping a fish, or any board for that matter, and that is, where and what kind of wave is being surfed.  If you are an avid surfer/shaper as I am, (even in my later years it’s more the latter than the former), watching the pros at your home break or one close to it brings lots of important clues to making a great board (in this case fish). All the rocker numbers in the world won’t do if they don’t fit the wave.  Lis fish were designed to be knee boards in Big Rock & Blacks surf.  The theory was:  take a pin-tail stand up gun, and make it for a knee guy.  Two tails, for down the line & cut back. Wide point under the knees to support the weight.  Short length like a paipo, and fins to kick into the wave.  This is all history out there for anyone to find, but I was around when it went down, so it has a kind of specific meaning to the way I shape fish.  My fish are for Cali waves.  Big, or hollow, waves we have here.  Not HI, not AUS, not Eur.:  Cali.  Keep what you’re doing for you know what works where you are at.  The great shapers in the past could take what they knew back home and adapt it for boards that worked in other spots.  Many of them made boards that just didn’t work outside of home.  Been there.  Anyway, keep shaping, it’s an interesting job and not one that pays a lot, but can be rewarding,  just my 2c…

PS:  I only do speed-dialer quads now! LOL

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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13

Hi there Surfteach,

Wow, amazing to hear such experienced words, thanks for sharing it, and yes, i couldnt agree more. When i bought that cris cristenson fish, it was obviously designed for cali waves, they worked nicely while i was there but as soon as i tried to use them back here in Brazil, they would just not work, back then i was 18 years and i didnt have much knowledge about dimensions, rocker and so on… but as 10 years passed by i started to really pay attention to it, and for this last year i came up with these fish designs, and whats seemed to work reeeeally fine here its to add more tail rocker to it, but i still keep the low nose rocker. The result ended up working for tons of different conditions on our beach breaks, and knowadays i only use thrusters when the waves are super fast and hollow, otherwise, screw it, going with the fish all the way!

 

BTW im also in love with speed-dialer quads, im going to NY next month, im thinking of buying a new set of quads, i was in between these two…any thoughts?

Cheers

 

 

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14

Gui;  Never been to crazy to use Futures for quads, especially speed-dialers.  I like to use systems that are somewhat adjustable in moving the fins forward or backward.  I use Lokbox here in California as the fins are easy to get, and if a customer likes FCS, I will grind off a little bit of the tab so the fins can be moved for the best position for that particular surfer.  You would be suprized how much of a difference an 1/8" between fins makes.  Anyway, here’s a picture of the type of fins I like.  If you only use Future boxes, then I would go with the second set if your customer wants more of a keel fin feel.

15

Surfteach, have you tried Robin Mair Probox fin system. Pro box allows a 1/4” movement. They work with any two tab fins he also has his own line of fins.

16

Surfteach just now that i have remembered that my old cristenson quad had lokbox on them! I really liked the fact that i could move them, it was so nice because it did make a big difference, but unfortunately the rear fins were waaay to small, and im still facing the same problem from back in the day, i just cant find their plugs and fins here in brazil… thats a shame because  they are absolutely great. I really dont mind about the surf plugs, i leave it to the client, but i was prefering to use futures for keel fins because i thought they were better attached to the board, compared to 3 fcs x2 plugs for example, until i was surfing on a good overhead and made a strong bottom turn and the futures box just snapped…until today i dont know if it was just the pressure, the lamination quality ( since i didnt like the factory i used at the time ) or if i hitted a turtle LOL,  but since them i shape my own wood keel fins and advise the clients to choose them.

17

…hello man, hope you are not an stubborn like McDing here, but do it a big favor and put whatever quad fin you can find, instead of a keel fin. You do not really need those 9 3/4 inches in parallel.

 

18

I agree with Reverb.  Oh and by the way if you use the controller quads from futures do yourself a favor and just use the front pair.  Throw the rears in a box and use a similar size with some rake.  You will be glad you did.  And keel fish are fine for looks but it’s like rear wheel steering on a f1 race car… hard to justify from a performance angle.  

Ps friction and rocker…mixed concepts.  Try…oh…Gloss finish vs sanded. Laminar vs turbulent flow.  That’s almost a friction question.  

Signed…OLD GUY.  

19

Nice boards, Guivilas, except the incut fish makes me go cross-eyed. I like the keels. I’ve done single foiled, double foiled, Pavel quads, Geppie quads, curved keels. It’s all fun. The keels give me lots of drive for the pump and trim, pump and trim kind of surfing I like. I’m as old as Keith, but better looking. Mike

20

I like the looks of a nicely shaped Fish as much as anyone.  They are a design that is relevant and I have shaped a few.  Just not my first choice in a surfboard.  Preference not stubbornness.  Like surfteach I was around to see Steve Lis actually surf one.  I surfed the Cliffs frequently and had seen him there. Everybody  was talking about his kneedoards and his surfing.  Were I to shape and ride a Fish, it would definitely have more than two fins on it.  Always interesting to hear comments on this newly discovered design.