How to design and make humpback whale inspired surfboard fins

opened the laptop for the first time in several days…

 

I’ve no issues eliminating the cutaway at the base of such a fin. I’d rather have the trailing edge vertical from hull.

I am afraid of too little base area, even with more depth, with such high aspect ratio fins.   Could be an irrational fear, but slow speed drifty weirdness is a feature of high aspect  fins, and reduced base width would seem to accentuate this.   Tubercled fins being so happy in a stall/partial stall,  only adds to this drifty weirdness. My multifin HWS’s all seem to be overweight and dull until a certain speed is achieved then crisp and much more responsive, above that minimum speed.  Any fin which prevents that speed to be achieved initially, seems to ruin the ride and make me wish I chose to ride my longboard instead.  I refuse to hop or spastically try and generate that minimum speed on weak waves where one needs to get some parallel to shore movement early in the weak wave, avoiding the bottom turn.

 

I’ve never tried curved rail fins, don’t know what to expect.

 I can use the probox inserts for different cant/splay/camber and with no canted tabs I can more easily reinforce tab(s) with carbon rods.  Not really big on fins sticking out beyond the apex of the rail. Having cut up my feet in my youth on such fins, ruining many a session.

 

As far as cambered foil rail fins I only have experience with the latest ‘batfin’ I made with the ~150% thickness drela AG10, and the jury is still out as to whether I like, it with only a few sessions in undersized underpowered waves. I am bothered by flat sides from a design standpoint, but still like their crisp responsive projection when underfoot.

The more ‘antiflat’ the inside of a rail fin is, the less I’ve liked them, unless in the rare more powerful larger  conditions. 

 

I am leaning towards the raked tip of traditional ‘dol-fins’ being a  feel good ‘suspension’ with self centering ‘caster’ built in, with the tip flexing away from load and rebounding afterwards, with an acceptable amount of drag. High aspect with no tip to bend in reaction to the flow around it might have noticeably less drag, but is missing something, like the board not self centering to nearly the same degree and having to consciously do it, where that was never a consideration in the previous 37 years of wave riding experieneces.  With multifins perhaps the rear fin(s) can provide that self centering and forward rail fins be optimized for max grip minimum drag, rather than 3/4 similar shaped sized fins of today’s perfomrance quads and thrusters.  I certainly liked the feel of mrMik’s half sized Deaweeder fin in my thruster box which has a fair amount of sweep , with my HAR rail fins.

 

The ultra short turning radius of high aspect fins on my shortboard, when pushed hard, has been a bit weird to figure out, and makes one realize just how much resistance to turning the traditional fin outline imparts.  Quicker and looser and different might be just be a short lived novelty if one cannot get it figured out and achieve the lines one intends when reading the wave face. 

 A happy middle ground of high aspect fin ratio and comforting raked tip’s self centering and rebound twang is likely quite personal.  Combining high aspect ratio’s lesser drag combined with the comforting flexier self centering raked but draggier tip, likely needs a lot of trail and error to refine.

 

I think the deep ‘Peng Wing’  rail fin might be really fast and loose but still lack the comforting self centering and ‘loading the fins through a turn’ feel.

  Can the center fin tame the turning radius without imparting too much added drag? 

Can  a thick foil counter the lack of self centering  and slow speed drifty weirdness of high aspect ratio  fins?

I guess there’s only one way to find out, and that’s to try it.

There are many interpretations possible when doing biomimicry designs. As a side project I am modeling a series of ocean animals inspired fins (thanks for bringing penguins to my attention btw), while trying to stay as close to reality as possible. I’ll only allow myself to smooth the planshape to remove particularities that are variants among different specimens and design a better foil while respecting the original thickness. This is not a project to do revolutionary fins, but just to play with sticking various animal flippers and wings under your board. Plus it’s pretty and a good study exercise.

I chose another picture (there’s so much variations between species and individuals) and designed a thruster set. Went for the 7" depth suggested by wrc68, which gives a base of just above 3". Made two 18% foils, one symmetric and one cambered, that looks really thick on a fin but I let nature do the design for this project. Curved the side fins just a bit (about 1/2" from straight line), 7 degrees cant, and added some twist toward the tip. The leading edge has 3 degrees less AoA toward the tip, meaning less lift, less tip vortex and somewhat delayed stall. 

PS: wrc68, if you gave some thoughts to the tuberced (curved?) thruster set you wanted we could start designing it. I didn’t get G10 yet, being carefull with money because of the lockdown and delayed payments from clients until India’s borders open again.




Those look pretty sweet. Very close to what I was trying to draw on cardboard. I was looking more for a obvious break in leading edge outline half way up with a super subtle tubercle.

  I was going to look for different breeds of penguins online, see what i could find, see if I could get my printer to work and get something printed up in the 6.5 to 7 inch deep range. I lost my round tuit though.

 

I very much like the idea of the rail fin tip having 3 degrees less AOA.  I’ve an acquintenance who rides some fins with that feature,  and swears by them.

 

Regarding tubercled thrusters fins. I do not really know where to start.  The 50/50  gwhale fins  cut to 4.5ish inches deep, are too weird as rail fins, and are my only experience trying tubercled rail fins, and they were so love/hate, the few surfs I tried them in.  

 

I want very High aspect ratio but ‘some’ raked tip area, allowed to flex slightly.

 

I also am fretting more and more about big old tubercles catching and not releasing the leash, not only when getting into waves, but when actually falling losing the board and using the leash, I think the leash will be able to rip fin/ finplug out of the board.  Leash shedding  ability is becoming more of a consideration for my shortboards.

 

On my LB I have never used a leash with a tubercled fin so it was never an issue, but  on either SB or LB, I have a tendency to paddle deep as I can at oncoming wave, sit and swing the tail into wave, and do the buoyancy assisted take offs, and the leash is very obstinate about getting wrapped around the tubercled thruster fin doing this. 

 

Not sure the whole leading edge ‘needs’ tubercles either, perhaps just closer to the base, or if all three thruster fins need them.

Man I feel like I missed something. When did whales turn into peguins? Just kidding, WAO and WRC you guys are like a couple of mad scientist. Let me know when you two start a fin company. I’ll be the first to invest!

I spent my free time this week making this fin. This is just a sneak peek and not finished so don’t be too harsh. It’s also meant to be a show piece more than anything.

One also has to consider that penguins will not fall onto the pointy end of their wings.

But surfers will occasionally fall onto their board’s fins, and they use leashes.

The Dea-Weeder fin was my first attempt to make a tubercled fin that does not catch a leash or seaweed. It’s tip is too pointy for safety though, maybe it can be rounded without causing issues.

The G-Whale and Albatross-Whale fins are rounded everywhere.

 

I wonder if a fin with smooth leading edge, but undulating surfaces would have some of the attributes of tubercled fins, but without the leash catching effects.

 

I really need to glue the carbon bars into the G-Whale fin that has WAO’s smooth surface structure and find out if it surfs much different from the one with finFoil-generated undulations.

 

I could try to overlay a tubercled fin with a finFoil-undulating tubercled fin so that there are no actual serrations at the leading edge, but the Gullwhale fin without tubercles also catches the leash, albeit half as often.

MrMik and WAO are the scientists, I’m just mad.

The deaweeder is a good fin, its just not as quick or loose or forgiving as the GWhale.

  It’s way better than my regular dol-fin while feeling similar during turns with that forced longer turning radius, while being quicker too.

 

The Deaweeder cut in half with a probox base is my current favorite thruster center fin, and part of that is it will not catch and hold my leash on the swing late buoyancy assisted takeoff, but it also feels like it has more squirt/projection on the bottom turn than the top half of the Gwhale.  It’s not as loose but that’s not a factor with my HAR ‘sharky’ rail fins with their extreme pivoty tendencies.  It’s also not as fast when on open face with good speed already,  and able to pump for even more speed. The 0.5 Gwhale fin in such a situation  with the sharky rail fins, make my board a freaking rocket.  My issues are just getting enough speed in weaker conditions to where the board and fins come alive. 

Breaking my ‘minimum chest high’ before shortboarding rule has been enlightening, and frustrating.

 

I finally got some good waves on my lumpy spitfire fin. It is significantly different than anything I’ve surf so far. It will definitely take some getting used to. I had it in a 9’ x 24" x 4" longboard that is my daily for smallish days. Surfed diamond head cliffs and it was shoulder high sets, kinda windy, but great day overall. The good news is it’s fast and trims awesomely. Just pick a line and you go. The bad news, it’s seems to be unturnable when it gets going. It seemed to be impossible to break the line once it got going. I think I can move it back further in the box to try and loosen it up.

On the note of boxes, just curious if anyone has connected 2 bahne boxes together in a line for a super long box? It was a random thought I had as I was looking at my fin placement.

As far as biomimicary, I was thinking about either a quad or twin set of sea turtle keels using the turtles back flippers. I added a picture. 


I dont see it as being easy to sink the rail of a 24 inch wide, 4 inch thick edged 9 footer at speed to turn, regardless of the fin used, but a low drag high aspect ratio fin will not slow down the board as quickly when initiating a turn,  or through a turn, compared to standard fins.  The standard raked fin adds a lot of confidence through turns, much like having more effective brakes do when approaching an intersection/hairpin turn at too high a speed.

 

The WaveGrinder WG2 felt like it was tracky to me. The faster one was going, the more the fin would dictate when and where and how hard one could turn.  With the Fin being much less draggy, the extra speed was even more hard to deal with, and I’d have to begin the turn and wait longer than normal before I could really engage the rail and then push progressively harder, and then once engaged and turning down the face  unexpected accelleration would begin again and a locked in tracky feel would resume. 

The tubercled harftub fins with teh same aspect ratio, were devoid of this tracky tendency, but not as quick either, and the first Gwhale felt as fast or faster than the WG2 for ~85% of the wave.

I’ve not ridden the WG2 since, even in the weakest of conditions where it was previously the obvious choice.  MrMik also sent a PLA WG2 clone, and I broke the winglet and replaced it with a hardwood winglet, designed to ‘dig’ a bit less than the original, and this one was even faster.  Later on I saw it is slightly higher aspect ratio too. I am not sure that the different winglet angle or the higher aspect ratio or the being stiffer factor made it obviously faster, especially midface or lower but I do believe the winglet angle’s in relation to the tail rocker is paramount to where on the wave face it works best.    

 

Generally moving the fin back is not going to loosen up the board, make it easier to turn, unless your back foot is on the deck directly atop the fin or behind it, which is unlikely on a 9 foot  squaretail 4 inch thick longboard at speed.  Moving it up in the box should also move the sweet spot up slightly and make it somewhat more controllable at speed.

 

You are likely going to have to get your front foot closer to the rail to turn it at speed on such a board with such a low drag fin or really stomp on the tail to sink it and slow down first.  more back foot pressure batman.

 

I put mild consideration into extending/doubling a singlefin box on my first HWS, but then decided I would just locate it for a single fin and the thruster fin could hang off the end of the box as much as required.  I actually still put it a bit farther back than required, as I wound up liking it best with the thruster fin moved abnormally forward. but I never wedged the single fin all the way forward either.

 

The boxes do not flex very well with the tail, I’d not want to join two, even if the joint was heavily reinforced.

I’m not the best surfer by any stretch. So that doesn’t help things. The monster that is my longboard desperately needs to go on a diet and will probably get reshaped once it has enough dings and dents. It’s still pretty new looking though.

The fin I had been using was a “high aspect ratio” version of a standard fin mostly foiled by hand and what felt right. It had similar problems when I first rode it, but nowhere near the speed. I shoved it all the way back in the box and it was a lot more manageable. I’ll try shoving the lumpy spitfire forward next chance I get. Scratch that I want to give it another go in decent surf before I start changing variables. I also have a 7’ 4" that I plan on trying it in one of these days.

I’m going to have to look back through Mr. Mik’s thread because I don’t remember which fin the WG2 was.

 

wg2=

https://finsciences.com/

 

I’ve tried both the fcs1 wingletted offerings 5.7 deep and 4.8" deep.  The smaller one was OK in thruster position, still had that locked in tracky feel.

 

The Winglets really need to align with tail rocker and wave and riders style

 

When dialing in the harftubs, gwhale fins, I was bringing a screwdriver/ fin key out with me and when the board felt too loose move fin back slightly, too slow to respond to input, move it forward.  Found the thinner version of the Gwhale liked to be farther forward than the fatter version.

 

The ball spring plungers allowed for easy movement, but my worn/stretched fin boxes would eject it way too easily.

 

I made a deeper version of the  ~ half size G-whale fin. 

Three 5mm pultruded carbon bridge the tab to well up into the fin.  Getting good at precision drilling without a drill press.

My table saw fence fin sled yielded a nice result for making the 6mm thick probox base, did not even touch the 3 5mm carbon bars installed within. Still time consuming to get fence dialed in.

This fin hangs over the front of the Probox as much as the tubercle would allow.  My 6’8" I always liked the thruster fin a bit smaller and pushed farther forward, so I thought I needed to try something similar with this 6’11"

The Peng wing idea got tabled for now.  My version in cardboard installed in my 6’8"  just never ticked the boxes visually, no matter how long I looked at it and from different angles and moods.

I spent some time with some more white cardboard and drew out several high aspect quad fin  templates. Still deeper than a regular thruster fin, much less base area though.

  Lack of Base area might be my slow speed nemesis.

The  drawn ‘batfin’ is slightly smaller than the one I already made, the remaining fin panel was not quite big enough. 

 

I’ll probably not cut out the batfin yet. Could be ages before I decide ot bust out jigsaw anyway.

 

Saw another interesting nature show concerning the bat’s wing.  Apparently it is unique in that most of the wing’s structure is made up of its fingers.

https://interestingengineering.com/bat-flight-inspires-next-generation-of-wing-design.

 

Feels like ages since I surfed.  not much swell but never any lack of crowd.  Mostly groups of clueless wavestorm surfers cluttering all beach areas/lineups  to the point I dont even bother checking bouys or weather or cams, much less drive there to put eyes on it. 

Doubt I’ll be able to judge any fin performance for a while…feeling quite out of shape and well out of stoke.

Used to pray for September, but this year it might not provide any crowd relief.

 

 

 





During some research (as in Duck Duck Go go - ing) for unrelated matters I came across this spectacular video.

It shows how humpback whales actually use their outside pectoral fins.

I’d bet my bottom dollar that the inside fin is pointing down in a mirror image to the outside fin, giving the humpback whale the maneuverability to blow bubble curtains.

Note WAO’s curved fin designs in action on the humpback. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usjk1SVwMQk

We need wrxsixeight’s expertise to design and build a camera that can show both pectoral fins at the same time…

Pretty awesome to see the action which  forced the evolution of their pectoral fins.

 

That’s a long time at maximum angle of attack / partial stall, and the fin flex is also interesting,  but also that it stays the same in between tail strokes without pulsing.  That’s a lot of mass to steer and they’ve the longest pectoral fins.

 

 

I just realized after I wrote this post, I had already posted this fin a couple months back when I made it. So this is more of an update. Finishing up glassing and sanding it. My first time glassing with vacuum bag also.

Not exactly a break through new idea or anything. Just another of Mr. Mik’s whale fin, but with an additional twist. Tried to do a trippy surfer on a was resin inlay. The surfer came out cool, but the wave is pretty purple. I need to work on my pigmenting. It was also my first attempt at vacuum bagging. Vacuum bag was the perfect thing to get the glass around the tubercles.


Nice!

Can’t wait to play with a vacuum pump… it’s on the bucket list for sure!

I was in the same boat for a long time. My wife’s friend was upgrading his entire vacuum setup, resin casting style stuff, and sold me his now old pump for cheap.

I think it turned out good for a first attempt. I used a ziplock bag with the hose pushed through the bottom and tape to seal it. My peel and ply was saran wrap and my breather cloth was a piece of paper towel. Aside from the saran wrap leaving a bunch or wrinkles and the glass just not wanting to bend around the sharp corners everything went pretty well. 

Next time I think I will only do one side at a time, do the fin base separate, and find something better than saran wrap.

I’ve never posted anything on here, but I thought it was funny that this was the first thing to pop up when I googled ‘swaylocks + fins’. I’ve been making a few of these since last year. Far from refined, and I need to trial a few different foils, but here’s the latest one

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMcgR7SnV2c/

Looks interesting!

How do you make them?