Hi there,
Hey i’m trying out some new cloth (the same stuff you see in all the
fibreflex boards), and I wonder which layer I should lam first, the
E-glass or the Biaxial glass?
Also does the biaxial cloth use more resin? Is it stronger than the same weight of E-glass? I will be using Epoxy resin.
Cheers - J
I use it for many time now , lam first biax. Normaly it use less resin but many peaople who use it found it use more because its’ not a fabric make for the standard “par dessus” laminating tech use for surfborads.
Biax is Eglass without crimp, it’s a stitch fabric, it’s stronger for constraint in axis of fiber.
Sorry for my frenglish
I use it for many time now , lam first biax. Normaly it use less resin but many peaople who use it found it use more because its’ not a fabric make for the standard “par dessus” laminating tech use for surfborads.
Biax is Eglass without crimp, it’s a stitch fabric, it’s stronger for constraint in axis of fiber.
Sorry for my frenglish
Do the biax first. The E will be better for a fill coat to sand on. Also the E drapes much better if your doing rails, you can use it to hold the biax down. Also really depends on the weight. Did you get some of that 5 oz. stuff or is the 12 oz.?
If your comparing similar weights of cloth "strength" is one of those hard ones to quantify. The weave and the orientation of the cloth will change it's reaction to flex and impact. The biax will tend to flex more than straight E if the bias is 45 degrees to the stringer.
Used to use 12 oz. double bias biax in the kiteboards bagged over a corecell core. Esentially it is a material that will flex more because of the fiber orientation before it will deform or break.
For the deck, I lam both together with the biax underneath. The guys at GraphiteMaster were very helpful in saying that the biax needs to be capped with another cloth.
Following their advice, I cut the cap layer about one half inch longer all the way around and this was very helpful in wrapping the rails. Also, while you many not be interested in the extra trouble, on the last one, I used a wetout table and went very thin on the resin. I had a helper. I rolled it on a big tube after wetting and rolled it out on the board. I had found that the biax seemed to absorb too much resin laminating the normal way.
Biax is now part of my std lam stack. For short boards I go foam/6 oz biax/4 oz/4 oz deck patch. I don’t use it on the bottom, as it makes the board too heavy for me.
Good luck and report back your results. (Don’t make me come over there.)
all the best, Greg
Hey Guys, First let me say thanks, you guys are fast!
Yeah Greg, I won’t make you come over, trust me, you’re cool where you are, any how waves are puss here…
Definitely will cover lap by 1/2"(or more), I’m thinking wrap the biax 1" past the tucked under edge. Sound good?Too little? Too Much?
Yo DMP, bro the lads at Shaper sold it to me as a 6oz. I got no bag but that sounds like a good way to go as it helps use less resin from what i’ve seen. I don’t have a wetout table, so I might try lam them both together over a tacky bottom layer.
Lemat, i’m glad you like it, how do you make it use less resin?This blank is a stringered PU burford green. I can’t wait to do some EPS carbon rail with it. may be some stringlerless PU too. Gary McNeill is making some hype with this and polyester.
Cheers All
-J
I put some resin on board than lay biax and let it soak then finish with hot (fluid) resin. I test it in all situation , deck, bottom with or without something on, 6oz and 9oz. Because it’s a no crimp fiber it’s better for fatigue stress in axis of fiber, in surfboards bigger stress is in lenght axis so biax 45/45° is not the best for resistance. But it’s good for spreading stress, torsion rigidity, it’s allow to put more fiber without dead flex of boards.
Sorry for my frenglish
Hey Lemat,
Cheers m8, I ended up not coating the board b4 laying up. I think I did this because when I pulled the biax out of the bag it was a mess and It took me so long to straighten it out i was scared to move it again! I'm using a fairly thin resin -Acme 500 series 3 to 1. but the each lam, stds and biax, all took 400ml -ouch- and the deck hot coat was 210ml this seems a lot to me, what do you think?
though , it is way harder than what my std 6x6 deck lams used to be, but i was using Kinetix resin. I'll try kinetics again with biax and find out (Same blank of course!)
one board is 6'5" 18 1/2 2 7/16 the other is 6'7" 19" 2 7/16" Are these boards getting too long for biaxial cloth? I hope not because this stuff looks sooooooooooooooo good. I love it. It's definitely worth the hassle just for the appearance, as long as it doesn't snap..
I'm planning to make some 5'8" hybrids and 6'1" shorties using EPS and carbon rail with these cloth. (US blanks from Burfords) I'm guessing under 6' it's definitely ok for lateral strength.
Cheers
-J
I lay fiber on a table, cut the lenght then roll it on a tube before lam. For Xglass (6oz) i use now a bit less resin than classic 6oz plain twist wave (471 from hexcel). The first time i use lot of resin because i use the “standard surfboard way” for laminate= put resin on fiber. Now i use the “standard industrial way” for laminate=put fiber on resin . No crimp fiber fill strong but 45/45° is really noddel flex in the lenght. A mate make a short stringeless fish with only biax (2top 1bottom) it was really felxible and it collapse quickly. You need something to take lengh stress for stiffness.
Sorry for my frenglish
Gotcha,
On the 6 oz. Sounds like your also using epoxy.
If the cloth came in a bag? you should pull it out and put it on a roll to align the fibers. The stitched cloth can swim around if its loose. Having it on a roll will make it easier to place on the board.
I'd layup the biax first and work it to saturate just the minimal amount of resin to get a full wetout. Then lay on some 4 before it kicks. Add only enough resin to take care of dry spots and to get the 4 to lap. 6 biax plus 6 E will be heavy on a pu blank.
Hey Guys,
Thanks,
I’m really scared I didn’t put carbon rail on now, after your friends poor fish lemat!
When I prepared for hot coat, the strings were sticking up a lot and i think I sanded right through the E-glass on some parts of the rails.
I couldn’t help myself, it looked so lumpy. But I will definitely roll up the biax today now that you both have recommended this. I’ll definitely give the “standard industrial method” a go and use only 4oz over the top, thanx DMP ;). Yeah the 6’7" is getting a little heavy, but it is nearly a small boat:)
And yep, definitely is epoxy i’m using. Acme 500 3:1 slow hardener. Boards are showing really strong impression resistance on the old thumb test. maybe this resin is harder than the old Kinetix stuff? We’ve got some new Kinetix (Ultra white) and so far it is looking good and going off waaayyyy faster. I’ll be trying out Resin Research with in the month, which the rep tells me is the absolute bomb.
Totally Ampped that’s for sure
Thanks again guys
Cheers-J