So I have had a guy come and ask me to shape a small 5’2’’ with a rolled nose blending into vee. Nearly all my own board are flat entrys with concaves/ vee tails. So this is quite new to me. Does anyone have some tips/ photos of how they shape a roll to vee ?
I’m a hack, but on my last board ( an egg ), I cut a deep angle from nose to about 18" back, then blended it back with a soft sanding block. The nose had some beef though.
On my Jackson longboard, from about halfway it goes from slight roll, to moderate roll through the tail. It is smooth as silk in the water.
The way I do it is…Get the bottom perfectly flat then measure the amount of belly you want on the perfectly 90 degree rails, then take the sanding block and start on the rails and work torward the middle. look at your flat edge to check the roll. After you put roll into the wholer board then you can blend the vee in. I’m sure there are 10 more ways to do it but that is the way I do it. Good luck.
One thing you might consider is the rail line.
Sighting the rocker along the stringer is pretty easy, and the rocker along the
rail line of the bottom is very similar. Just takes some lifting of the shape close
to your face and shifting your hand around (tail end) and sight the rocker curvature
along the rail edge down the whole board.
Once you got that, rough shape belly the full length of the board. (If you do more
and more boards like this, you will start putting the “vee” into the tail during this
step.) As you rough the belly in, keep sighting the all-important rocker lines,
along the rail and along the stringer if you are hitting that as well.
True belly should have no peak or crown. The board will likely “steer” if you have
a spine up front (this may or may not be desireable.) As you progress down the
length of the board, that “spine” should start to appear, and the robust contour
of the belly should start getting knocked down into two panels making up the “vee.”
One caveat, you are running a transition of contours along a SHORT distance
of only 5 feet. I suggest not going too drastic if you are shaping for speed. More
of each contour implies a board that may sacrafice a little speed for turning, which
is okay, but be aware of each shaping stroke you put in at that point.
Lastly, your “vee” may be subtle, or even “rolled vee” which has some belly in each
panel. The more drastic (and opposing,) contour would be “spiral vee.” Again, it
depends upon what your shaping goal is, so go with your instincts on getting it done
correctly.
Good luck! Have fun!
George
Sounds like your client has been watching Lost in the Ether - the section on MP’s Kirra board. That’s pretty much a description of the bottom contours of that board, although I think it’s a bit longer (5’6" - 5"7"). From memory, you’ve got that movie somewhere haven’t you Zac? Go back and slow-mo the shots of Kidman running a straight edge over that board, it might help to give you a feel for the finished product.
This is how Ive done it on the 3 boards Ive tried so far. The picture is shitty, & take it with a grain of salt- im as hack as they come, but I’ve put the belly bands in, staggered/tapered towards the tail, then added the vee. After reading some more, Im pretty sure you should do the reverse: put in the vee first, then band, since you’ll be working towards the absence of foam taken out from the vee when doing the belly instead of bringing the vee down to the belly bands as I’ve done. Less chance of error in changing the rail rocker. But just like its described earlier, its done in the roughout. Hope this helps. Critiques welcome.
***apologies in advance to blendingcurves.com, the slightly freudian illustration above is my own sloppy edit of one of your image files. Forgot to take your url out. Let me know if this bothers you, and I can re-edit my edit.
Thats kinda it
Some cool replies here people, that pic makes a lot of sense. On my bucket list is to make use of an 8’ Con pig template, and shape belly all through the bottom. One day I’ll get to it, big challenge for me.
I think using your outline template to draw those bands on the bottom would work really well.
I’ll be stickiying this thread!
What is your preferred method, Ace?
And beerfan- using the template for the gist of the bands is exactly how I read it on a sways thread. If I can find it I’ll link to it, but this thread by ACE and others really motivated me to attempt my bellies. It explains the finer points better than I-
http://www2.swaylocks.com/node/1025500
edit Somehow deleted the previous image. Here is a new and improved:
Hey Cass I dont think he has seen it. Alot of guys in syd are moving onto the rolled bottom, bit of a fad at the moment with some younger guys. Personally ive never liked the feel of roll, I like my down rails too much.
Hamrock: with your diagram im assuming the outside cuts are deepest then slowy fade in. Does your cut fade also when moving to the rear of the cut i.e the belly is deepest near the nose ?
thanks for the help guys, seems like this will be quite the challenge
Thats even better. Basically I “flatten” the roll where I want the “v”, simple.
Exactly what Ace says, regarding blending it to the vee. For the belly, read the very last entry on this thread: http://www.swaylocks.com/node/1009505 . Then re-read the the thread I referenced earlier, reconciling the the cross section diagram of bottom rail band cuts in it with the hard #s Spence gives in the thread at the start of this comment. Go to the blank, mark it out. Use those same numbers, but draw them out to a pleasing, mellow depth up on the nose. You’ll see that by +/- the depth of the first cut, and then basing the subsequent cuts off that (using whatever measurements you desire), you can modulate the slope of the belly. To clarify- when I go up to the nose, I widen the bands but lessen the depth in relation to the thickness foil. Depending on how you stagger the bands, this should leave you free to make the deepest part of the hull somewhere around midpoint. Or whatever your design calls for. Makes sense? Dont be bummed if it doesnt, I’ve had a few brews. Also, It took me a few nights a week of reading the archives and then basing my cuts of the above two threads and more to really START to get it in practice. Get a pad of paper, draw the square rail profile at each quarter point on the board as well and just start sketching angels. connect the intersections of your proposed rail bands and you can more or less judge the resulting belly curve.
edit- zack, I can see where you would deduce that the belly is deepest at the nose going off my diagram, but what that fails to take into account is the curvature of the nose rocker already inherent in the blank, and invisible in the diagram. If you were carving a single, flat, rectangular piece of foam, then yes- the belly would be deepest (and then continue that depth out to the vee) where all three bands horseshoe at the outline’s shoulder section. But since the blank has the rocker curve already in it, the bands must follow that. That why I said that I make shallower but wider band cuts at the nose- this allows a nice blend from the mid/shoulder section belly into the nose where the depth of everything mellows out. Same concept applies to the transition into the vee. Once you actually start whittling away at a blank and thinking through your steps in 3 dimensions, itll all become much clearer, I promise. Lastly, a piece of advice I read here long ago deep in a hull thread; its become the most fun aspect for me of blending every shape together: think like water.
I was talking to a local shaper one morning about rolled bottoms on long boards......He says...Do you know how to dome the deck???
.....So I went back to my little Lab and domed the bottom.....I'm learning one board at a time......Ray
^ succintly put by stingray. It just seems weirder at first since you’re tackling the bottom. I will say one more thing: I dont know how you shape, but roll the bottom how much or little you want first, before tackling any deck (or even any deckside rail) bands. This will give you a much more accurate baseline for your rail shape/foil. Basically the Bill Barnfield approach.