HP longboard shaping questions

General Discussion
1

I’ll start by an appologize for rising this topic again- SORRY.

I didn’t find any information that really helped me…here it goes-

I want to shape a high-performance 10’ longboard.

since this is going to be my first time to shape and design a surfboard I know it

might end up a disaster but at least , I want to minimize the mistakes and manage to build a good board.

there is a lot of information in the net regarding HP longboard’s contours, rails, concaves and width .

the problem is the rocker!!!

since I come from the aircraft design world, I know that airfoils (rocker in our case) have a great

deal of thinking behind them and designing a good, efficient airfoil , is not just a matter of

drawing a curved, drop shaped airfoil.

still, if I do decide to hand-draw an airfoil, there are some simple rules that as long as I follow them,

I will be able to create a flyable, yet not perfect, airfoil.

these rules relate to the airfoil’s max thickness in precentage of the airfoil’s chord, max thickness location on the chord , leading edge radius,trailing edge etc’…

since I don’t have such a longboard to copy its rocker , I want to find out the theory behind “rocker designing” so I

would be able to design it by myself.

It would be a great help if someone could spill some light on this one…

THANKS A LOT

.

Btw

I have a 10’ eps blank waiting for me at home… 30kg\meter^3 density…

2

flat entry = ease of wave catching / early entry, nose riding; probably get pitched coming down a steeper wave face.

more rocker = will make steeper drops, where a flatter board would just get buried; won’t noseride as well.

kicked tail = locks in for noseriding; slow.

flat tail = speed and release.

HP = more nose rocker, flatter tail rocker.

i’d suggest that you take a look at all the boards on the Harbour website. they show the rocker of all their boards, and you’ll easily be able to see the differences in rocker between boards like the Nineteen (old school cruiser), and the H3 (modern hp longboard).

go nuts…

3

http://www.foamez.com/pdfs/CF%20Blank%20Catalog.pdf

Unfortunately, youre going to get many many different answers.

There are easy and difficult ways of doing things.

Here’s the easy way:

download the catalog above…its the SURFBOARD BIBLE…

representing about 30 or more years of proven design history.

Most commonly used bottom curves and foils are represented in there without hype, fluff or noise.

For HP LBs, look closely at the “S” blanks.

HTH

4

My knee-jerk reaction is “there’s no such thing as a high performance ten footer”… but that’s just rude. Next thing… Roy will jump in and say it doesn’t start becoming a high-performance board until you get to eighteen feet;)

That said… and now forgotten…

Flatter nose rocker will make the board glide faster… you’ll push less water. It’ll have a tendancy to stuff the nose, unless you can get to the tail and keep from plowing (which is the way I like it) - that will also set you up for cranking a hard bottom turn off the tail to start the wave off. Nose riding is a little bit harder with a flat entry rocker. If you get ahead of your board on steep drops, you may want more rocker in the nose, or you’ll spend a lot of time under water.

More tail rocker will keep the board looser and make it easier to keep the nose up on steeper drops. If you like to crank turns off your back foot, this is a great way to decrease the board’s turning radius. If you don’t get too extreme, the tail rocker won’t really slow you down much.

My general rule of thumb is - continuous gradual rocker from nose to tail, progressively increasing in the rear 1/3 of the board.

You didn’t say how much you weigh, or what kind of waves you’re planning on surfing with this board. I’m 190lbs, and I wouldn’t make the board more than 3" thick… especially in EPS.

Also… I like my longboards to ride like shortboards so I get them with HARD rails from the front of the sidebites (if it’s going to be a 2+1) back. Then I set it up with a 7" cutaway center fin set pretty far forward - to keep it loose, and 2.5" or 3" sidebites.

5
Quote:

I want to shape a high-performance 10’ longboard.

since this is going to be my first time to shape and design a surfboard

IMHO. Seems like a LOT of surfboard to shape for a 1st. I tell people making their 1st board to take their time, enjoy the experience and try to get the template cut as true as possible. Adding/changing rocker on a blank for a 1st time shaper is just something to add to the list of mistakes that you mentioned minimizing. Other than that ; make it, ride it and enjoy the fact that it works!

6

art is right… the longer the board, the more you’ll see your mistakes. Gradual and continuous lines are going to be key.

Also… something I’m not hearing much talk about is thickness from nose to tail. I surfed a friend’s 9’6" board at SanO a few weeks ago. It had a nice template… nice rocker… was finished beautifully… but the ride SUCKED. The tickness was totally wrong, and it destroyed the board’s ride.

The board was too thick in the nose, and too thin in the tail. In order to catch waves, I had to paddle from the nose - with my face about 8" from the front of the board (on a 9’6"). Once I caught a wave, I’d have to jump to the tail to get the thing to turn. Then… I’d have to weight the front to keep from loosing the wave. That was one of the worst boards I’ve ever surfed… and I’ve surfed a lot of boards. Last time I was down, my friend asked if I’d like to borrow the board again (since I didn’t bring a longboard)… guess what my answer was.

Balance in critical. Keep the neutral point somewhere near the center of the board. A little forward if you like to drive off your front foot. A little back if you like to crank off your back foot. By “a little”, I mean a few inches max. Before you glass your blank, balance it on your finger to find its neutral point. I’ll sometimes put a mark there, just for future reference.

7

thanks guys,

things get clearer …

I’m not very familiar with the terminology in english , I need some translations-

ENTERY ROCKER…means?

kendall, when u say that the rocker accelerates from the 1/3 to the rear, do u mean that the tail rocker is bigger than the nose rocker?

thanks for the “harbour” and “foamez” links. they gave me some perception on how a rocker should look.

I’ll analyze some different rockers and try to find out what stands behind each design so I can understand better the parameters

and maybe…just maybe…design one by my own.

from your experience, can I count on the accuracy of the rocker drawings in “foamez” ?

is it worth fullsize printing? ( and making a stringer)

kendall I weigh aprox 85kg (190lbs…)

the waves in mediterranean are not as powerfull as in the big ocean.

usually we get good knee+ high waves and after good night storms , morning swells are about 6-7feet.

when I say HP 10’ LB , I don’t mean I’m going to aerial 360 with it, but I want it to be lighter and way more manoeuvrable

than a standard LB.

I still have lots of unsolved qestions, but I’ll try to figure out some by my self.

when I get stuck again…I’ll shout … SHAPER-MAN SAVE ME

and hopefully u’ll come to my rescue.

thanks again…

good night and swell dreams,

lee.

8

as u know …haven’t got into thickness phase yet, but these r really interesting stuff u say here dude!

I’ll keep the balance issue in mind when I choose/design a rocker.

thanks :slight_smile:

9
Quote:

ENTERY ROCKER…means?

The nose rocker - in the front part of the board.

Quote:
kendall, when u say that the rocker accelerates from the 1/3 to the rear, do u mean that the tail rocker is bigger than the nose rocker?

For me personally… yes. I move around a lot on my board. I don’t have a problem stuffing the nose (pearling) so I choose boards with not too much nose rocker. The tail rocker loosens the board up and allows me to make hard, tight turns off the tail - more like a shortboard.

Quote:
when I say HP 10' LB , I don't mean I'm going to aerial 360 with it, but I want it to be lighter and way more manoeuvrable than a standard LB.

You shouldn’t have a problem there. Simply making it in EPS will help make it more manuverable. Remember EPS will sit out of the water more than the same thickness in polyurethane. It will also flex more and feel more lively.

If you’re surfing the Mediterranian, you won’t need a lot of nose rocker since you’re not doing super steep drops. Go for glide and manuverability… keeping the nose rocker low will make your board paddle faster and glide better. A bit more rocker in the tail will make it easier to turn quickly.

There are a lot of minor tweaks in board design that don’t really make too much difference until the waves start getting critical. It sounds like that’s not going to be your problem. Your conditions lean more towards paddling and catching waves easily. You’ll be fine as long as you don’t do anything too extreme. Keep it simple and flowing and you’ll end up with a board you really like. Don’t get talked into too much nose rocker because it will slow the board down, and you don’t need it for steep drops.

10
Quote:

If you’re surfing the Mediterranian, you won’t need a lot of nose rocker since you’re not doing super steep drops.

the Mediterranean is a BIG sea, and it’s certainly got its share of crunchy peaks. i’ve surfed some rock reefs in Israel that offered up some crazy drops, and very fast sections. a little more flip in the nose and a little flatter out the tail was much appreciated.

11

Kendall…YOU R THE BEST!

thanks.

12

Israel huh…

where have u been?

Haifa has the best ( and almost the only) reef surfing in Israel.

and you’re correct, we do have some steep fast drops!

most spots are easy to surf and don’t demand a special surfboard.

sometimes, when there r really big waves and there’s nobody in the water, I paddle out to the

3rd break…usually 500-700 meters out .

there I find extreme surfing…2.5-4 meter drops, steep huge faces…just awsome.

there is only one dude, my best surf mate and also a very good friend, which has the guts to surf there.

I know this wave sizes sound to some of u like a piece of cake, but for us this is heaven in its best!

alone in the water, far from everything, so quiet and yet so alive…

for these days I need a really big board that paddles fast and catches the wave easilly.

longboard, big gun…both will do it.

hope this HP 10’ will be also good.

Next time u plan a visit in israel, let me know…

I’ll do my best to make feel at home.

13

howzit, lee…

my first time surfing in the Med. was around Tel Aviv about 10 years ago. there was a 2 meter swell running, and a whole bunch of surfers off a jetty within view of my hotel balcony. i’ve since made my way as far north as Haifa. i was back out there last summer and scored some fun waves in Tel Aviv and Netanya. hopefully, i’ll be able to return this summer – either in late May/early June, or late June/early July. and thank you for your very kind offer…i’ll certainly take you up on it! whenever i’m out there, i’m always on the lookout for a longboard to rent/borrow…which is a little difficult because i don’t speak the language. i really should learn a little bit of hebrew and arabic before i go back (at the very least so i can better-haggle with the cab drivers and nargilah salesmen)…

peace & waves…

~ brandon.

14

…10 + longboards is a good lenght option for smaller surf

but you ll have some problems to obtain a HP outline in such lenght…

you should think what is the way you want to go; I mean, more glide effect, more turn capability, smaller radius action, walk to the nose, noseriding, slalom, etc

with that in mind, you can start to design the board

15

Lee,

i have absolutely no experience shaping longboards but, for what it’s worth…

it seems to me that the apex of a longboard’s rocker changes a lot in regards

to the intended purpose of the board. it seems like the apex of rocker

on a classic noserider is pushed forward. sometimes even past the midpoint.

but, the rocker apex on a more HP longboard is pulled back closer to the tail.

maybe the guys with actual experience shaping longboards can comment.

16

thanks for the advise guys.

I do like to ride on various boards in various conditions so maybe the best solution is

to make several boards for each type of riding.

'though I’m positively sure that I’ll ride all of them all the time.

I really like to surf different boards on the same day…

Brandon… few words in hebrew won’t help u a lot, and arab for sure will not get u anywhere!

english will be just fine since everyone here speaks Eng and if not…

probably he doesn’t worth talking to!

Tel-aviv is full of beach boys and wanna-be surfers or as u call them “posers” .

Netanya is considered a good beach but the atmosphere isn’t that good.

come to Haifa you’ll have fun! I’ll get you a board!

BTW, I think there’s going to be a big war in July-August… :slight_smile:

that’s what Cowboy Bush plan… don’t ya’ think? ;-|

what the hell do we care??? we surf!!! no politics

hhhhhhhhhh

17
Quote:

My knee-jerk reaction is “there’s no such thing as a high performance ten footer”… but that’s just rude. Next thing… Roy will jump in and say it doesn’t start becoming a high-performance board until you get to eighteen feet;)

That said… and now forgotten…

This is a fairly refined 10’ 2” high performance longboard. It’s a one off custom made with the last ordered Clark blank w/ a blue HD foam center w/ ¼” western red cedar offsets and a Deon tint. Although there was talk of a small wave board while conceptualizing it, it’s been used for crowd control at Rincon in some medium sized surf. It rides w/ a variety of fins…. Now ridden w/ 4.5 X4’s and a 7.5 WR power fin.

It’s got some nice pins by Chris Fallon too

800×600 56.5 KB
600×800 49.1 KB

600×800 53.1 KB
600×800 48.4 KB

600×800 47.4 KB
800×600 56.4 KB

18
Quote:

Brandon… few words in hebrew won’t help u a lot, and arab for sure will not get u anywhere!

english will be just fine since everyone here speaks Eng and if not…

probably he doesn’t worth talking to!

i know, i know…and i’ve never had a problem getting around the country before…it’s just nice to be able to speak a little bit of the local language whenever i’m away from home. i don’t like the idea of the typical self centered american who expects the rest of the world to conform to his own ignorance. so many people travel abroad, and never even make an effort to learn some of the local language or customs, under the pretense that “everyone else speaks english”. besides, people talk to me in hebrew a lot when i’m over there – apparently, i look like a kibbutznik.