Hull Ponderings

This is kind of rambling out loud with what I have felt surfing very different craft. Feel free to chime in and support or shoot down any ideas posed.

6-10 liddle hull smoothie- You can drop in to a semi-mush stomach high wave, and as long as it has a future to it, and you are frontside with a bit of diagonal/down drive, you put it on a rail halfway down the face, or at the bottom, and (just like the stereotype) it just smoothly sucks evergy from the face gliding or even pushing u down the line pelican style while on the rail as fast as pumping the sh!t out of a thruster but you are just holding that smooth lean! But heel pressure cutbacks (fin at 13.25 trailing edge from tail) feel like my 6-1 ci single when the fin is too far back-- it drives but I wanna feel it tighter (probly lag as the board is new and I am so used to surfing off of fin clusters).

Now Lee. V mentioned something about his multi fin edge, and how you can get hull turns up on it… while still able to cut thruster arcs off the tail/fin cluster.

combine this most recent personal gain of surf feel with Rambled thoughts:

hydrodynamica footage of rasta surfing that fish in aussie point surf

classic velo bottom turns

favorite standup board ever a 6-0 x 19 1/4 x 2 3/16 lost rnf (pretty heavy single to spiral vee) that i had someone duplicate, but they went too flat and the board was dead feeling. (stresses importance of single conc to double conc with some vee out tail/spiral vee)

failed carbon spoon stressing patheticness of clark foam in rails.

1st board experiment failure because of lack of strakes to release before water hits hulled rails.

Nose diving horrible sing conc entry rocker on spoon - shows importance of slight belly/hull in front third

paddle fins rendering toe/cant obsolete if tuned properly (which mine are not)

best feel = mat = closest to water = thin = light

hulls curves get crunched when shrinkin below 6-10 length.

Synthesis = 5-10 x 19.5 x ?? standup spoon swallow tail

end grain balsa rails front half/false tail rear half — thinnest possible for rigid structure only- adjustable float is provide by mat style bladder w/ traction, but still above false tail…

edge based…hull rails frontish half- sing conc -spiral vee inner hull/bottom. rear half is dead flat rocker and separated from rigid (although still extremely thin) deck

canard quad style paddle fin hybridized for no toe- cant - thinnest as structurally possible

carbon/s-glass/weird bad colored industrial epoxy that can be messed with and structurally maximized (basically heat treatable epoxy??)

weight 5-6 lbs ??

result: trim if u want, hull suction link turns/smooth drive if you want, tuned flex hardcore off the tail fincluster bottom top turn combos if u want…

Problem: it would take at least 5 more years to surf individual parent board concepts to generate feel/understanding then 10 years of making it structurally sound then 10 years of fine tuning shape then 10 more of fine tuning flex I would be almost 60 years old!

damn makes u just wanna bodysurf…lol

edit- some words didnt belong, others were missing

I looked at a 1990 Liddle displacement hull at the beach house today for $175.00 in the used room. Or was it $275? Water tight, old logo. Very interesting!

110 Yater’s


https://swaylocks7stage.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/1004696_-%20Falzon%20photo%20#2.jpg

Keep that mind wiiiiiide open! I have had a chance to pretty much dial in the edge boards. While they will rail turn and hold a nice high line, that “pull” is not there. The thin rails are the/a key to rail turns but I think you need the curve in the bottom to fly.

I was riding my Boroquez Pescado today (Liddle-like hull in front 2/3 and a fishy thruster rear 1/3 in some head-high to over head stuff and I pretty much rode it off the tail like a thruster. The hull smoothed things out but didn’t have that “pull” either. I still need to screw with fins on it but I’m getting convinced that if you want the transitional displacement hull feeling, you’re only gonna get it from something very close to Liddle single (or single with his runners) design.

Don’t get overwhelmed by the whole flex thing. Go for it by playing with a flex tail. You really don’t need foam back there. If you put one on a hull, you won’t need to stand back there anyway. Over-build the glass and just start sanding between sessions until it starts working. I never really got a huge rebound on my favorite more of a slow slingshot. It did loosen up a very stiff design in crap waves.

You are the bbest! Knee, stand, prone- what is it in your surfin g thhat you are looking for?

Are “hulls” sshaped to fit the curves of a certtain kind of wave? Or are they shaped to fit a certain sttyle of surfing? Thaanks

Yes to both. The Liddle hulls were designed for small California point breaks. That is where they work best but can work in pretty much any smallish (10’ or less) walled wave with some down the line push. You can modify them to work in other conditions but they are the classic point wave board.

They require a very specific style to get the most out of them…read more at liddlesurfboards.com

LeeV, that’s classic. My idea of smallish is under head high, and I’m only 5’5" and a lightweight. The beauty of living in different worlds.

I agree completely that specific styles, or style adaptation, are necessary for hulls.

Yeah, I was running on some adrenaline from that morning…the best operating range is between 3 and 8 feet really. If you push your fin back they will work in bigger stuff but after just over-head I start nursing my turns. Greg’s Hawaiian outlines and the runners expand the range even more I understand…

I’ve been to the liddle website before and read a bunch of posts here mentioning “hulls” but I guess I’m still unclear on exactly what is different about these boards. (didn’t find it in the swaylocks glossary either). From the term “displacement hull” I get the vision of something that has a rounded (convex) bottom that sits down in the water instead of planing on top of the water. But if that’s true, I have a hard time understanding how these boards could be fast down the line as people say.

So can someone please post a few sentences for me that explain the difference between the shape of these boards and other boards? Thanks. Sorry for being so clueless!

The whole hull/plane thing kind of a semantical argument. Suffice it to say hull, as a lot of us use it here, is a egg shaped board with pinched round rails and a slightly convex bottom, S-deck and usually a single, high aspect, thinly foiled flex fin. They are very difficult to photograph to show the contours. They have to be seen and actually felt to appreciate them. Spencer Kellogg (“Spence”) has(or had) a slide show on his web site that shows one being shaped and is the best way to actually see what is going on. Try and contact him with a PM or follow the links in a thread called “Show me your garage” or “Show me your Shaping Room” from a few weeks ago.

The convex bottom is pretty subtle and, to me, seems more a result of pinching the rails, than making the bottom round. There is a 6"-1’ wide flat spot along the stringer so it is not really “belly” in the normal sense. The deepest part of the hull (the distance between the apex of the rail and the lowest part of the bottom) helps define how the board rides. Greg Liddle puts them toward the front of the board, Paul Gross and Steve Krajweski put them more to the rear. It kind of defines where the sweet spot is for turning the board.

The idea is the convex surfaces grab the water and ride up the face of the wave, giving the appearence of lift. On a long wall or point wave with some push, gravity, the affects of the rider’s movement and that “lift” gives the down-the-line pull the design is famous for. Instead of the foiled side of a sidebiter pulling you down the line on a pump, you have 6’ of tuned bottom and rail doing the same thing…pretty powerful feeling.

To get all that, you sacrifice vertical surfing…hull surfing is about tying long arcs together, picking up speed on every turn. On longer versions, trim will do it alone.

Lee, with respect to hulls, what are your thoughts about sanded vs. gloss finishes? I know Spence is of the 320 wet sand school of thought whereas other hull shapers sometimes gloss their boards.

Hey LeeV, first thanks for sharing all your knowledge (not only on this thread). If you have photos of the finished board, i would like to see your " 2003 6’4" Edge Bottom Stubbie" that’s on the resources section.

Also let us know how it ride. Do you think it would suit the small (2’-5’ waves) beach breaks that we usually surf?

A really nice shape, and a really interesting subject “The Hull” itself.

Good waves!

Coque.

Thanks Lee for the explanation!

I’m going to go back and read up on what makes them harder to surf backside before I decide about trying this kind of board since most of the points around here go the wrong damn way for me. Wish I’d have been born a regular foot…

I like my boards shiney. Greg Liddle swears by 320 grit too, one way, parallel to the stringer…infact he used to send a little instructural letter with his boards and he would staple some sandpaper onto the letter. I’ve never tried it. KP and Matt probably have and would be better to ask.

Coque; I would be embarrassed to take a picture of that board now…I ride 'em hard and put 'em away wet (an old cowboy term about abusing horses). Imagine a 9-inch Liddle flex fin with the bottom of the back edge equal to spot where the edge blends into the tail.

The board works GREAT in any kind of wave up to 1.5 overhead. BUT if your feet are a couple of inches off the sweetspot, it bogs or spins. It is not the edge but the rocker and foil that are off enough to squeeze the sweetspot. The transitions between different sections of my staged rocker were way to narrow.

If you get it right on the take-off though, it can draw some really tight rail turns. You can really feel the fin doing things on this board, twisting and releasing. I should experiment with some stiffer versions in bigger waves. It doesn’t snap around like a thruster, it is more of a carve around. I should really build another with smoother rocker and maybe a swallow tail to make it more user friendly.

Marabout: Kirk Putnam is afflicted with the same disease but he can surf circles around me. Practice, practice, practice…

So you haven’t take care of this beauty? Well that must mean that you enjoyed it.

Each time i search in the resources i think about shaping a bonzer or singlefin stubbie with the template of this board, i know bonzer & hull are close to opposite boards but i really like the template. I’ll do it soon. But yesterday night i was recording on DVD from VHS tapes with some surfing videos for a friend, the videos where “Innermost Limits Of Pure Fun” , “Morning Of The Earth” and “Free Ride”.

I watched some parts of the videos and i think that they were riding some hulls or “hull-like” boards in the first two videos, and they seem really sweet to ride… everything was about carving the face of the wave without loosing speed. I saw some waves from David Treolar (on Innermost Limits Of Pure Fun) that i really liked, of course there were more good performances, but i saw some waves from him really connectin sections, carving with style… really nice. And then i saw the section of Michael Peterson on Morning Of The Earth… what a performance!!! He was riding something that seemed like an eggish hull (maybe wasn’t a hull) with a Greenough-like fin, and the man ripped, of course it must have something to do with the fact that he wasn’t exactly an average surfer…

Anyway, seeing those videos make you want to shape a board like that and learn to carve the face of the wave.

Any of you have some information about the board Michael Peterson was riding? I’m sure i’ll find some numbers on the archives (i’ll search now!) but what about the bottom configuration? The board seemed to accelerate pretty well on the hollow sections, and it also seemed to feel confortable close to the power (again, this can be the driver, not the car).

Well the thing is that i ever thought that a hull was a board for the long clean walls that you ride there in california, and that it wont work on beach break conditions, but after seeing Charlie’s photos in “El Sardinero” and hearing his feedback, i’m thinking that maybe, the concept will suit more kind of conditions.

Again, thanks for the information LeeV!

Coque.

PS: and what about your “Edge Bottom Fishy Platter”? it has been abused too???

i do keep some 320 in my bag of “stuff” but when it gets too tattered to use, or if you just don’t have any, good, clean, dry sand will work as well.the idea is to clean off all the residue that can accumulate on bottom(some you can’t really see)which provides for a cleaner, faster surface.(well, that’s why i do it anyway…)

I just got a fresh batch from Liddle hulls . A 7’6’’ smoothie a 7’10’’ 7’2’’ and a 7’0’'. Hand shaped ,glassed , sanded,glossed , hand foiled fins by one man , a rare thing today.Swayloholics get a deal. pm me for details. A shameless plug. All my boards are sanded to 400 or 320.

Quote:

So you haven’t take care of this beauty? Well that must mean that you enjoyed it.

Each time i search in the resources i think about shaping a bonzer or singlefin stubbie with the template of this board, i know bonzer & hull are close to opposite boards but i really like the template. I’ll do it soon. But yesterday night i was recording on DVD from VHS tapes with some surfing videos for a friend, the videos where “Innermost Limits Of Pure Fun” , “Morning Of The Earth” and “Free Ride”.

I watched some parts of the videos and i think that they were riding some hulls or “hull-like” boards in the first two videos, and they seem really sweet to ride… everything was about carving the face of the wave without loosing speed. I saw some waves from David Treolar (on Innermost Limits Of Pure Fun) that i really liked, of course there were more good performances, but i saw some waves from him really connectin sections, carving with style… really nice. And then i saw the section of Michael Peterson on Morning Of The Earth… what a performance!!! He was riding something that seemed like an eggish hull (maybe wasn’t a hull) with a Greenough-like fin, and the man ripped, of course it must have something to do with the fact that he wasn’t exactly an average surfer…

Anyway, seeing those videos make you want to shape a board like that and learn to carve the face of the wave.

Any of you have some information about the board Michael Peterson was riding? I’m sure i’ll find some numbers on the archives (i’ll search now!) but what about the bottom configuration? The board seemed to accelerate pretty well on the hollow sections, and it also seemed to feel confortable close to the power (again, this can be the driver, not the car).

Well the thing is that i ever thought that a hull was a board for the long clean walls that you ride there in california, and that it wont work on beach break conditions, but after seeing Charlie’s photos in “El Sardinero” and hearing his feedback, i’m thinking that maybe, the concept will suit more kind of conditions.

Again, thanks for the information LeeV!

Coque.

PS: and what about your “Edge Bottom Fishy Platter”? it has been abused too???

You, sir, are a man after my own heart.

If you ever come here , I want to lend you a stubbie [and, hopefully, ? a bonzer by then ? ] and film and photograph it being ridden…

… ‘Practical Research 101’.

Did we ever end up doing an “M.P.” thread ? I forget. [I know I WANTED to, especially after reading his book] .I know it’s in the design forum at surfer somewhere as well as I’m pretty sure here ? [the ‘stubbie’ thread , perhaps…]

meanwhile

[I believe Ted Spencer’s from ‘the innermost limits…’ video were more ‘hull bottomed’…the Greenough influence.]

cool replies all.

Reckon theres a reason he put the word "smoothies’ on the stringer after the dims…the thing is the smoothest standup board i’ve ever ridden…it definitely has its place in a quiver and I reccomend it to anyone that can pick one up and give it a go with reasonable/honest expectations.

I had a feeling he glassed it and made the fin but didnt know…man that makes it even more special. Not a lot of folks who love what they create like that anymore!

surf well

run, glad you like the FEEL! of your board.I just got 2 more 7’2’'s.One smoothie and one roundtail.