What are the advantages/disadvantages between the two major wood surfboard types? Weight? Cost? Complexity? Time? etc.
There are so many variables, that it is hard to answer copletely.
In my somewhat limited experience, a chambered board will be almost always heavier than a HWS. Even with nice grade balsa, I have trouble getting a longboard under the 10kg mark. Granted, I like leaving a lot of material on the rails and the center piece. You should be easily able to cut some weight off that figure with a hollow.
In terms of complexity and time, again, it depends. A lot of the work on a hollow seems to be in the planning phase. Drawing the templates, measuring, foreseeing the complications. (Thanks to all who have posted, which helps a lot on that last one!) Building a chambered blank is not that difficult, but if you want to chamber it ‘correctly’, you can spend quite a bit of time.
I usually give long delays on my balsa orders, in the neighborhood of six months. I treat them completely apart from my other orders, and probably work at the pace of a home-builder on these boards to give an idea of the time spent.
Mahalo.
I chose to go the chambered route for my first wooden board because it was not as complex and time consuming. Some day I would like to try a hollow board. I see that as being a more advanced project.
This is where I step in and give my moneys worth.
The abilty to come out with the EXACT wood board that is desired, with room to sculpt, shape, tweek until satisfied, is a solid blank that is then chambered after shaping.
I built frame and spar boards in high school in Hawaii in the early 60’s, but until I had the experience and abilty to build solid wood boards, that is when the quantum leaps started taking place.
I have one unglassed 10 foot gun that I have chambered, it is 7 pounds, normally I get them to around 11-12 pounds.
Those of you that had the opportunity to get by my booths at the Jan. ASR show saw some of these examples. Some of the industries top shapers spent hours marveling over them. A job worth doing is a job worth doing well
First… Full disclosure… I have a horse in this race…But I’m not here to push anyone in any direction, I’ll just offer my honest opinion based on a few years of building and riding exclusively hollow wood boards…
Next, I must say I have absolutely the greatest admiration to Jim The Genius…There is no greater master of the process…Jim needs to have an entire wing in the Shapers Hall Of Fame…
That said, as I see it, one advantage the HWS method has, is that it’s not dependent on having access AND the big bucks to get the kind of wood Jim is talking about…I’m doubting that the kind of balsa that’s needed to build a 7 pound 10’ gun like Jim’s talking about is even remotely available to those in the lower echelon of shaping…I get the feeling that stuff is pulled aside for the best to make the best, the way it should be…
I probably would have not gone the hollow route if I had premium balsa in surfboard lengths easily available…I can get all the wood I need for a HWS of any length at a decent lumberyard locally for less than what the shipping cost of one 4x4 balsa would be…That fact alone opens up the build-abilty of a HWS to almost anyone, anywhere on Earth…Common materials for uncommon boards…I can verify that Hollow Surfboards have been and are being built and ridden on every continent except Antarctica…
Cost wise, just using 1/8” mahogany plywood, I could build the frame, skin both sides and build out the rails for less than $30, unglassed…It’s not gonna be a wall hanger, but it’ll be rideable, and rideable for a long time…A board that draws a crowd, and leaves their jaws dropped can be built for about $25 to $35 per foot of length, glassed…
Another factor that HWS has, is that it doesn’t take the “one of a kind virtuosity” with balsa that Hall Of Fame shapers like Jim and few others possess…I’ve got plenty of examples of novices building a HWS with heirloom qualities and rideabilty…It just takes a patience and an commitment to quality…
Time wise, it takes me about 40 hours to start with nothing but an idea and have a board ready to be glassed…It’s an evenings and weekends thing for me…If you want fast, go buy a board…
As far as weight goes, my most recent 8’7” weighted 11 pounds un-glassed…It’s definitely not the lightest than can be built…It’s just an example of what can be done using lumberyard wood… You also have to remember that a board that weight is almost too light in waves of consequence…At least that’s the way it feels to me…That’s due in part to the fact that hollows feel lighter in the water than their true weight suggests…For where I surf, and the waves I prefer, I like a heavier board, but again, that’s just me…
Finally, even though HWS have been around for a very long time, it’s just within the past five years the information on how to build them so they are more than just kookboxes has become easily available…Thanks be to the internet…Especially Swaylock’s…
Paul
I agree Paul,
Also balsawood is nowhere near as good for surfboard building (In terms of durability ) as Cedar or Paulownia. . .
The idea that a board is better if chambered from solid balsa logs is really just based on a wallhanging criteria and has no basis in terms of function.
I very much doubt if a flexible wooden longboard with 7 to 9 inches of rocker can be built using the standard balsa chambering method. … . and that means that the process is limited to rigid flatter rockered boards . . . . ok if that’s your buzz but like I said, limited in terms of the designs which can be built.
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The chambered boards of Jim Phillips ARE wallhangers. I’ve seen them hanging on very steep WALLS at Sunset, Haleiwa, Laniakea, and Waimea. I think many of Diff’s boards hung on those same WALLS! Hmmm, ‘’… no basis in function.‘’ ??? Someone should have told those guys that it’s not functional. It would have saved them alot of time and effort.
Read my post again, I said that the idea that a board chambered from solid logs is BETTER has no basis in function. . . . I didn’t say that they aren’t functional, of course they are.
Surely in your job you read the fine print ?
Cherrs
Roy
I understood what you meant, and don’t call me Shirley! (Pay attention Herb, what movie?)
Quote:
I understood what you meant, and don't call me Shirley! (Pay attention Herb, what movie?)
“Surely you must be joking”.
“I’m not joking… and don’t call me Shirley”.
Airplane
BINGO !
Paul. you got it on cost, the hollow frame and spars I did for Channin show boards were done with one or two lengths of balsa sawn into skins.
Without going the route of a perimeter rail cap, the purist who buy balsa boards didn’t want to see where the top and bottom skins sat on top of a filler.
Al Nelson has done some remarkable skin over styro, with a solid rail lamination, but the rail wood still is visble where the skins exist.
Pauls workmanship on his hollow boards is next to none, I marvel at his ability, but I have another following, those looking for that “traditional” wood board flavor.
Brewer had some superb woodsmens building his hollow wood boards and they wre as I could see, accurate reproductions of Brewer’s boards.
I never did recall the costs of them. but I’m sure it was a heavy hit to the wallet,
Paul, keep up your great work
HWS vs Chambered thats like EPS vs PU
each has their own strengths already covered . . .
Since the masters have already covered the ins and outs of the wood . . . Oh yeah, now I remember the reply. Roy Stewart said something that you can’t get rockers,
Quote:
I very much doubt if a flexible wooden longboard with 7 to 9 inches of rocker can be built using the standard balsa chambering method. … . and that means that the process is limited to rigid flatter rockered boards . . . . ok if that’s your buzz but like I said, limited in terms of the designs which can be built.
I’ve seen chambered balsa guns with rocker, so its do-able, on a 8 footer with 7-9 inches (7-9 inches of rise over 8 feet of run) of rocker . . . that’s alot of rocker but Roy is probably thinking along the lines of 7-9 inches of rocker for his long 20 ft olo’s, which can be done using chambered but that’s lot of work and you might need some robots / assistants to lift 20 ft long planks.
The flex would be as much as the balsa (or whatever wood you used) has. I think you can do all types of shapes using chambered balsa technique, but if you’re looking for something like shortboard thruster for airs or one with more flex, there are other materials / methods suited to that than chambered balsa