Hi Dave, I dig your new foil design, so many things to learn with a new shape and that’s where we build the bank of experience.
I’m amazed that so many sup foil makers are all doing the Twin lateral foil design…? It’s like they all only read one page of the hydrodynamics book and can’t get past it.
I’m guessing from your design that you’re not doing a thick foil…?
Thanks guys,
I guess the foil makers are just going for versions of something they already know works (even if it’s not ideal) and are trying to find the sweet spot.
I’m Not planning on doing the thick foil, at least for now. though I’m not as afraid of thickness as I used to be.
I edited that pool video that I mentioned and will post it somewhere soon,
It’s nothing earth shattering by any stretch but it does show some interesting traits as it tries to get back to the surface.
I may also build a very large version (maybe 4 foot long 30 inches wide) at some point to see how big it can be and still be ridden.
Dave, isn’t that amazing about the foil makers ??
They have an opportunity to start a new venture / concept, create new designs and break all the rules that don’t exist. To do a bit of the most enjoyable R and D on earth…but they went straight to the basic Twin lateral foil setup. And then squabble over who’s making the best version of the same thing.
Meanwhile back at the ranch…
You and I and CRISPI and a guy Surfcowboy and a few other guys use inspiration and imagination to explore the limits of design and learn what works.
If I was going to Start a foil business…
Inertia has been the way of humanity for centuries.
Makes me wonder why I would ever offer our designs , they’d only get ripped off and claimed as their own original designs. Sometimes it’s better to just do what you do without the money hungry people.
its a moral plague that’s run amok worldwide, not that everyone is infected, but it often seems the chief players are mostly all cheaters, as it were. “Its not illegal” is the only criteria, and even if it is illegal, money can buy the lawyers who will prevent justice from taking place. A friend of mine invented a woodworking tool, even patented it, but a Big Name tool maker took his design, modified it slightly, and then introduced it as their own. He knows they stole his design, but hasn’t got the financial means to take on the Big Boys in court (and they know it), so that’s how it goes. Sad.
But what’s cool is all the awesome progress you guys have made, and the fantastic concepts you’ve brought to fruition! Kudos for that, and in my book that is a way better accomplishment than stealing someone else’s work and making money off it.
That’s about the state of play at the moment. With the foils there are a lot of very high quality products offering an amazing experience. Problem is, it’s the wrong experience.
Or wrong concept, the main foil is the lifter, the rear foil is angled down to keep the front foil aiming up, so immediately you’ve got one foil lifting one foil dragging. Then to ride it you have to exactly position yourself to counterbalance the lift foil.
It’s like putting bricks in the stern of a boat to keep the nose up and then standing on the bow to keep the nose down.
What the ??
Funny you should mention that Brett , I knew some folks back in the day that did put blocks in the front of the boat to keep the bow down only took them out when they were hauling square grouper lol
here’s a link to the video from the pool ,
https://youtu.be/DbCNnZ8Au_4
It won’t be winning any best cinematographer awards but that wasn’t the intent.
Dave, Bill Stoneburner and I did a few foils that I may still have and the idea was that in the tail we would slowly twist the rail foils ‘externally’, so the inside edge is higher.
The theory was that apart from wave speed and gravity flat foils don’t generate much lateral resistance like a standard surfboard fin. So we twisted the foils so the tail had slightly less lift but more drive via the lateral resistance from the twist and make a big difference on a steep wave face.
They were great foils to ride and I’ll PM you with the ride reports.
If you put the embed code of that video in your post it will play on swaylocks, no external website. Also, the last second of that video (the still image) is just as interesting as the footage. Thanks.
Thanks for embedding the link,
I didn’t realize that the still image at the end was only visible for a flash. lol
Dave- Your concept/design is truly amazing.
I’ve been considering building a foil for kiteboarding and wanted to try something “a little” out of the box myself and not just the accepted single mast/fuselage with two wings that everyone else is building. I also watch my friends trying to learn to ride them and see how “unstable” they are. The “faceplants” are almost too painful to watch.
Initially, I was thinking that having two masts would be a way to make them more stable (front to rear) to lessen the likelihood of faceplants, but was concerned that this might make them harder to turn when I got into the wave. After looking at your design/concept, I’m beginning to think in a totally different direction. I’m guessing that changing the length of your two “tails” will also change ride characteristics such as how quick it turns on the wave?
My old roommate from college is an aeronautical engineer and has offered his assistance with my design (if I ever find the time to figure it out). Good luck with yours and I look forward to future reports from you.
Wow!
I’m not sure if foiling will stay an almost SUP specific surfsport, certainly it’s applicable to any water craft but SUPs have the advantage of adding power thru the paddle to get over flat spots. I think they have been doing downwinding on foils for distances around 20 miles.
While it works on a standard surfboard there’s a lot of issues with safety due to the long mast and wide foils.
Thanks,
I haven’t seen any live face plants but I have seen enough video of them to make me very cautious about trying to stand up.
Surffoils has done double mast foils so he could probably tell you how they turn, but my guess is that you are right about them making it more difficult.
Changing the length of the tails is a factor but also where you begin the twist and how far it twists .
If all works out I will be testing it behind a small boat tomorrow, so I’ll keep my fingers crossed and go pro rolling.
he maneuvers that thing really well!
i saw two foil boards (surf, not SUP) at mondos in ventura the other day. mondos is the local mush/beginner/longboard spot. the waves were lined up and clean, but mush for sure. the two surfers knew what they were doing and it was surprising to see what they could catch and how far they could ride. one would paddle back out w/ the board upside down, mast to his side w/ foil above his head b/c it was shallow. thankfully it wasn’t too busy, but man those things seem like guillotines in the line up if it’s busy. i’m waiting for surf schools to show up with docks at mondos next : )
I was surfing down in Peru three weeks ago and ran into Laird Hamilton and a younger Hawaiian riding Hydrofoils. They were riding really short SUP’s, Lairds was 7’2", super stubby with a flat nose. They were flying, making sections that were completely unmakeable on a regular board. Another cool thing is they leave no wake at all. I was on a wave with a 10’ face with two SUP’s out in front of me and it didn’t ruin the wave at all, I could ride it as normal, blew my mind. They were connecting Pacasmayo from the peak to the pier, which is like a two mile ride. The young Hawaiian also had a prone board for foiling, a super thick 6’2" which was a big wave gun that he had cut the tail and nose off of. He blew my mind on that thing too. I was paddling back out to the line up on a long board and he passed by me going the same direction standing up pumping. He had cut off a wave and just pumped his way back out to the line up. Laird said he basically doesn’t ride boards with out a foil anymore. When I asked him what it was like he said its so much better he can’t even really explain it “its like asking a formula 1 driver what driving his car is like and him saying its really tight, but there’s no way you could have the reference point to know how tight a formula 1 cars handling is to really understand”, not his exact words but as close as I can remember. On a side note, Laird is a super cool guy, talked with all the locals and took time out for anybody that wanted to take a picture, still remembered my name a couple days after I met him. I always thought he was stuck up, probably because of the movie The North Shore.
SF,
Are these your designs? If not how do they compare? I haven’t been keeping up with the story.
Bob