i see the first meeting of Deputies has begun…WE DEMAND APOLOGIES!!!
shopkeepers…and clowns
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It seems apparent that DP sees himself as belonging to that great lineage of American writers including Steinbeck, Melville,
Hemingway, Crane, Emerson, Thoreau etc etc and for that reason alone and for the historical record he should come out in public and explain his capitulation. Steve
ps the BS putting down the french has no place here even though french poodles are very easy to laugh at.
You make some good points. No doubt when you come on strong with that type stuff and then give in your opening yourself up for some criticism at best.
DP got opportunities with his writing because of who he knew. He certainly was no Steinbeck, Melville or Emerson. Not any of those writers mentioned. I have read many a post here as well done as anything by D.P.
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Quote:Tom, try ancient greek city states and some Buddhist Indian republics if you want to get to the genesis of liberal democracy.many hundreds of years before the french revolution. democracy is very much a work in progress and far from static.
Yes of course you are correct, however no theoretical ‘justification’ can alter the inconsistency in claiming to be a liberal democracy while murdering all those in the opposing faction. . . . . as happened in France.
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Just for the record…America is not a democracy. It was not founded as such. It’s a Republic. Democracy has always been a utter failure since Athens because it mostly seeks to convert others to it’s way of thinking. I think America is one of the few countries founded to protect the rights of the individual against the majority. It certainly has not always worked. The French got tired of dealing with a bunch of sissy tailed royalty and over reacted. Mob mentality took over. I don’t think it says much about them as a people or a failure of the type of government.
Statism is where all the problems begin.
My one contribution to the political portion of the thread.
many countries have a bill of rights designed to enshrine in law the rights of the individual. Australia is one of the few liberal democracies that does not. Nonetheless the other tenets of democracy: the rule of law, separation of church and state and a parliament which can be voted out at regular intervals have served us well enough. Utter failure : not by a long shot. Perfect : nowhere near. The best system humanity has yet devised for the greatest happiness and freedom of it’s citizens : it would be hard to argue otherwise. Steve
Not so. We sort of expect an attempt at integrity, when ethical integrity was the basic thrust of DP’s spiel for years…a mere statement would be nice.
Clever acronym–a little of that goes a long way. Not toward making your argument like an intelligent man, but a long way.
This thread is a total joke !!!
There’s been more responses to " Stingray owns a Surftech"
Than to “Dave P goes to China”
Did you guys even read the title?
LOCK IT ,LOCK IT, LOCK IT
NONSENSE , NONSENSE , NONSENSE ,NONSENSE…
Yes, I own a Surftech…I also shape and glass poly and epoxy. I make my own blanks too thanks to Swaylocks. I plan on winning the French long board that will be part of the raffle at Sways 2007. need to save up more money for raffle tickets!
Have fun…
stingray the responses are about Dave P not Stingray owning a surftech. Sorry for the confusion. try reading the posts. No reason for this thread to be locked.
Shoes ,pants, shirts, sandals,rashgards, wetsuits, boardshorts, booties ,hats ,backpacks ,camaras ,tents , sleeping bags ,awenings,camping stoves …
Made in China…
Where do YOU draw the line?
I don’t have a problem with lennox76 or any other Swaylocks member.
Dave P can do what ever he wants…I make my own boards , I’m not part of the “SURF INDUSTRY”
Dam , I’m starting to sound like Roy…
If you call me Ray Stewart I will be pissed…
Still having fun
Stingray, you’re missing the point.try reading the posts, but yeah otherwise I’m with ya.
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many countries have a bill of rights designed to enshrine in law the rights of the individual. Australia is one of the few liberal democracies that does not. Nonetheless the other tenets of democracy: the rule of law, separation of church and state and a parliament which can be voted out at regular intervals have served us well enough. Utter failure : not by a long shot. Perfect : nowhere near. The best system humanity has yet devised for the greatest happiness and freedom of it’s citizens : it would be hard to argue otherwise. Steve
Democracy…pure democracy has failed everywhere it’s been tried. Republics have not. Democratic Republic are so far the best IMO
America was founded on the principles you mention. I can’t think of another country that was. Not bragging only making a statement. In fact…I suspect we have lost our way as of late.
Quote:
This thread is a total joke !!!
There’s been more responses to " Stingray owns a Surftech"
Than to “Dave P goes to China”
Did you guys even read the title?
LOCK IT ,LOCK IT, LOCK IT
NONSENSE , NONSENSE , NONSENSE ,NONSENSE…
Yes, I own a Surftech…I also shape and glass poly and epoxy. I make my own blanks too thanks to Swaylocks. I plan on winning the French long board that will be part of the raffle at Sways 2007. need to save up more money for raffle tickets! I will respond for you…Stingray or DP own surftechs. Who gives a …
Have fun…
Why do you want to be the moral police and have something that has not gotten out of line locked?
Why do you want to be the moral police and have something that has not gotten out of line locked?
Boy, I fucked up here.
Maybe we should look at Dave as a person. I don’t know him personally so I am far removed. But how does he act to his friends? How does he talk or carry himself in front of him?
Speculation and hearsay goes far, but personal opinion from the source itself is scarce and short.
When all the champions are either dying or going to the ‘other side?’ what does that tell me?
You are put to test . . . were you fighting alongside for your champion’s reasoning or for your own?
If Matt B, even Dave P who stood by his ideals as Matt B went to Vietnam, has went the Way of Surftech, now what are you going to do?
or what if the ones on the forefront fighting, realized that the original intention has changed or they have changed, or maybe the situation changed?
Remember one of humankind’s key abilities are adapting . . . despite their want lack of change.
Yep the only thing I can look forward to is change. Other posters have posted this also.
Good Morning Janklow –
I’m not sure DP owes Swaylocks anything. He very well might have been updating a new chapter of the manifesto regarding his views on the decision to outsource the molded SUP boards, I’m sure to publish somewhere other than Sway locks. He doesn’t owe this place anything after being flamed by some kid who doesn’t know what he’s doing, or talking about. Doraspawn shoulder hopped DP then cut back and buried him in the rocks. As I see it, that’s right on top of the list for the moderators to pull the plug and warn the posted to take a hike.
We all know what posting a private massage or e-mail can do to an honest debate or discussion ala Roy flaming Barnfield.
In a different context I could see a discussion going somewhere, but flaming Dave while he’s barefoot sucks. At this point I don’t see Parmenter coming over for a chat.
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Good Morning Janklow –
I’m not sure DP owes Swaylocks anything. He very well might have been updating a new chapter of the manifesto regarding his views on the decision to outsource the molded SUP boards, I’m sure to publish somewhere other than Sway locks. He doesn’t owe this place anything after being flamed by some kid who doesn’t know what he’s doing, or talking about. Doraspawn shoulder hopped DP then cut back and buried him in the rocks. As I see it, that’s right on top of the list for the moderators to pull the plug and warn the posted to take a hike.
We all know what posting a private massage or e-mail can do to an honest debate or discussion ala Roy flaming Barnfield.
In a different context I could see a discussion going somewhere, but flaming Dave while he’s barefoot sucks. At this point I don’t see Parmenter coming over for a chat.
EasternPac - You are not correct, No moderator action is neccessary here…no one has specifically bashed Dave Parmenter…only his decision to switch gears and produce with Boardworks, which is being discussed in a mostly orderly fashion.
If you do not like the topic of this thread then ignore it, and drop in elsewhere.
As the original poster, I suppose I should clarify a few things:
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The excerpts of Mr. Parmenter’s writing were taken from a manifesto that he wrote… it was distributed widely throughout the surf industry. In addition, there’s nothing of a personal nature in what I excerpted – simply a sample of Mr. Parmenter’s position on the topic of China and manufacturing epoxy composite boards.
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I have no issue with Mr. Parmenter’s choice – in fact, I have no issue with the manufacturing of these board types at all.
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What I do have an issue with is Mr. Parmenter’s choice in light of his past behavior. Mr. Parmenter has financially profited by selling his opinions, in written form, to many surf publications. At times, his writings on the topic at hand have been so derisive of shapers involved in offshore production that they have bordered on slanderous.
Let’s say, for argument’s sake, that I’m a well respected veteran shaper, who has paid 10 times the dues Parmenter has, and kept my opinions on other shapers to myself. Let’s say I signed up with Surftech, for some of the reasons that have been discussed in this thread. And let’s say that despite my significant contributions to this sport, my decision to work with Surftech led to people like Mr. Parmenter publicly sullying my good name. All for making the same logical and inevitable decision that Mr. Parmenter has now seen it fit to make (only difference being I refused to work with China, due to lower quality, environmental concerns, and treatment of employees).
I seriously doubt that Mr. Parmenter will have the integrity or courage to respond, on Swaylocks or elsewhere. I simply felt obliged to point out the situation, having heard Mr. Parmenter’s opinions so often. I feel that the shaping community has a legitimate right to discuss this subject.
Easterpac, I think it’s been established that this is a legitimate democratic discussion being carried out in a respectful fashion on matters that have been part of the public record for many years now. DP may or may not respond as is his perfect right but he or his supporters can hardly expect that he be exempt from questioning or criticism after an about face like this. To get that kind of privilege he’d actually have to move to China and join the ruling elite but I don’t think the surf is as good as Makaha there.
Good afternoon EPac,
I wasn’t meaning he should do it here–the other stuff is part of his public body of work, so I thought and think there should be a public statement about the new thing, but it’s not to fight with you or anyone else about–it’s just a matter of curiosity that he put himself out there about the old way of his thinking so much and for so long, and now says nothing about the new way.
There are, as usual, two different modes of thought at work here:
The first is to judge according to what is said
The second is to judge according to who spoke
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