Do any of you guys have advice for erasing a bad outline? I tried to sand it but the marker I used (and my heavy hand) runs nearly 1/8’’ deep. Spray paint? Spackle?
Thanks,
C
I had the same prob, switched to a red marker.
wouldn’t worry about it too much since it will disappear as you start shaping…just draw your second outline. If it makes it easier, use a different color or something to differentiate it from the first.
Thanks, guys. Thing is, it’s not that far off from what I want (like maybe a 1/4’’ off at the apex) so the line will run together for most of the run.
Maybe I’ll just skin the blank and then lay it out again.
Have great weekends! Be merry!
C
First thing C, ditch the marker. Use slighly dull
#2 or softer pencils and hold them at an angle
when you draw your outline. Any marker will leave
too wide a line and tend to bleed down into the
material, pu or eps. Also, some guys who did
production shaping (now its machine so the situation
doesn’t fit as much) would cut the blank to length
first, skin the bottom, then draw the outline. On
the Harbour web site, you can see Tim S. doing this
very thing.
On one offs, I draw my outline a day early, eyeball
it a couple of times to make sure it is what I want,
cut to length, then cut the outline a bit wide in case
I want to change it a little down the line. I recheck it
before I start on the deck, but that’s just me as I am
obsesive on singles and don’t have to shape to a clock
on customs.
Hey surfteach,
Thanks. I only do one-offs so it’s pretty much the same for me. I have had trouble seeing the pencil lines and switched to a thin sharpie for vis but maybe should go back.
I did exactly what you described: drew the outline, was happy with it, checked it in the morning and decided the tail was off and then came back from work and decided the whole thing was wrong somehow. It matches my numbers but it just doesn’t flow right. I’ve decided to make a couple of planer passes and start out again from scratch.
I’ll post some pics later and thanks all,
C
ditch ate pencil the pen and the charcoal and the crayon and the marks a lot
and tthe quill pen and make a masonite template and cut it out with a router.
the stringer is bent and the template will never come out right
the template shoulda been on the other side any way.
just shape the rail, template it and then make the other one match…
full template is one side …
just my narrow view…
sharpen pencils with 100 grit paper.
…ambrose…
Hey Slug,
Go to the art store (Arron Bros.) get the brand Berol Karismacolor Soft, The color is Karisma Graphite Aquarelle. I think I paid about $1.50 per pencil, you’ll be really happy with these. thick lead dark lead, really soft to write with, great for templating and signing blanks. You’ll be able to see it.
forget about the old #2 pencils.
I never tried it myself but I think a black eye-liner pencil may do a good job.
it’s soft, dark and very GAY 
anyone tried it? ( on a blank off course!! )
Ambrose,
Thanks brose but I like to see the thing before the router. How’s verse in the universe?
Resinhead,
Thanks, I’ll check that out. My hand reacts to the bold and the obvious. Faint or intersecting lines lose me so that sounds good.
Does it erase on the blank? Because I tend to like to draw and then contemplate and then redraw. I suppose that’s what this thread is about: starting and starting over.
Peace on earth!
C
No, nothing erases from a blank. Just like paper, you can always see it. Template lines will never show up on the finished board…I mean your not going to have square rails right?? You have a lot of foam to move on that bottom edge to make a surfboard rail.
i use watercolor pencils from the art store. they are soft and show up well. i use several different colors when blending different templates together so i can decide which combos i like the best.
brasco
It’s pretty apparent everyone has their own little dance on this part of it. I agree with the soft pencil school…works well for EPS as well as PU. Red would drive me nutz…but to each their own.
I do a lot of one off customs for people. I also evolve my own stash of templates. Here is some methodology I’ve developed over the years.
I use both spin and full length one sided templates…never been into the whole board templates or using a Rotozip (router)…I’m ‘at one’ with my saw.
When making a ‘composite’ outline (a new planshape combined of two or more templates and then some) I will draw the lines keeping in mind that the curve is more important than the actual exact dim numbers. I learned a long time ago that the people that like to throw numbers (specific dims) at you may or may not know what they are talking about and sometimes do themselves a disservice in the process. This is true to a degree, but not nearly as much with verey good surfers.
Specifically, after drawing out the planshape there are sometimes lines outside lines or joining up, or intersecting of lines that I may have drawn that I don’t want to cut out or in to. With the line I want the saw to follow I draw straight perpendicular lines out from it to distinguish that it, is in fact, the cut line. Think of the perpendicular lines as ‘pointing’ to the final line.
As far as too many lines becoming a mess, and making it hard to see the outline you want, I sometimes tape over the unwanted lines. I also will use tape for ‘fulling out’ or drawing in a new curve. You can use the green tape, natural color, or whatever works for you.
Tape is a really good tool for creating new curves provided that you have the ability to feel the curve while pulling the tape. This trick can also allow you to try numerous different curves on an outline to envision what you want.
As far as ‘cutting’ to the line, or outside an 1/8" or 1/4" or whatever, I think that’s a waste of my time. I use a sharp saw with the number of teeth comfortable for the material and cut right on the line. With practice, you can feel the bend of your saw and use the angle as you work though the curve to keep the cut vertical and without wobbles. This demands having a saw blade that isn’t to thick for making the bend. You have to experiment to see what is comfortable for you.
Very flexible saws like Japanese pull saws cut really well, but it takes getting used to pull cuts when you are used to push cutting. Also those saws can flex far more than a wider bladed conventional saw, and if you don’t have a steady hand you can squirrel out and totally wobble your cuts…which in that case, you better have cut an 1/8" or more outside your planshape to fix your screw ups.
When I come up with a particularly pleasing composite outline, I frequently will grab some material like 1/8" tempered masonite and make the full length half sided template from it. I’ll cut it out and clean it up and make it a finished template, then use it for the other side instead of trying to duplicate everything I did on the first side.
As you get more experienced with curves, you learn to distinguish the difference of what a bump and what a flat is, and what corrective measures you can use for each. Identifying the difference in these isn’t quite the slam dunk most people would have you believe. For my two cents worth, flats can be a real bummer, and take a lot more thought and discern to rectify.
Final note…over the years, my whole evolution as a shaper has brought me to be devoted to blocking out the board for trueness. If you don’t block, then you remain what I will call a ‘craftsy shaper’ versus a master.
Blocking, and chronology and depth of cuts, are key to being able to realize the shape you envision.
…hope some of this makes sense and helps in your quest.
Thanks everyone. I dig how everyone has their way. I’ve got mine–it’s just not working out so hot at the moment!
I don’t think I’ll have any time in the next week to work on this project cuz of the holidays, which is too bad cuz I could use a little time alone in the garage this time of year. But as I get to it I plan to post some pics and have sways way in on the ol’ design-and-build.
Until then,
C
Must be Christmas cuz there’s a lot of gifts in DS’ post. You can tell he’s got the spirit, passing along all that knowledge
it takes us old farts the better part of a lifetime to accumulate. Helping people is an important part of the season, and an
important part of Swaylock’s.
Thanks for the nod Mike…hoping you and all the crew here have a great and safe hollow day season.
Merry Christmas back to all you Santa Barbarians. I’ve got a lot of friends out there. Wishing all of you well!
Thanks, Mike. I always dig your posts.
Yeah definitely the DeadShaper brings the goods and I appreciate it. I think I’ve read his post three times now and will read it again after typing this. One thing though: I’m terrible with the pull saw because of the wiggle, which is funny because I used to be a carpenter and kept a sheathed pull saw in my pouches all the time. I think it’s the softness of foam.
Oh yeah: here’s my solution. I’m working out the outline I want on masonite,which is cheaper than foam, and lines erase on it. The blank is cut to length. I’ll skin it. Then I’ll transfer my template using A SOFT PENCIL (sorry Lee, no eyeliner) and then drag my wife from whatever good she may be doing and have her help me pull the baton to make it all come into line. Maybe I’ll do this first with chalk on a wall so I can stare at it, take a sip, stare … If this doesn’t work, I’m getting a new hobby, possibly knitting board bags or teaching my squirrel to water ski.
Anyway, wherever you are, peace!
C
Hey, I’m just glad to talk to other people who ‘‘draw’’ their own outlines instead of having a computer do it.
(don’t get in a snit, algorithm-heads, I didn’t say it doesn’t work, just I’m glad to talk to other…)
When you get to the cut-out part, there’s lots of ways to do it. Some love the pull-saws, some like DS use a regular
saw, and some of us cut with a jigsaw and true with planer. Others use the router and pencil bit, requiring a dedicated
template. On EPS you can hotwire off a dedicated template. Then there’s the worm-drive circle-saw tech, etc., etc.
Probably some other ways I don’t even know about. We had a good thread on that a while back. Were you in on that one?
Drawing, looking, thinking… Have a cold one and look again. Cut it out and look down the rail line. Shape it and look down
the rail line… Glass it, take it to the beach and see how the water likes it… Enjoy the good ones, learn from the others…
I think this is why we’re all here on sways.