" So anyway we don’t know why Gordon decided to do what he did, but all we’re trying to do is deal with the chaos. –
Harold Walker, December 31, 2005 " -
Something is missing in the story. I just don’t get it… Who would set up factory in China 6 months prior to the action happening, thinking that they can compete with clark foam? If we assume that walker did not know about the impending clark foam shut down, then we can safely assume that walker was planning to go head to head with Clark foam in the mass production of polyurethane blanks. Nobody goes to china to make 100 blanks a week. Nobody goes to china without a business plan. Walker and Linden seem too suprised, and are suggesting that the whole situation was simply a matter of good timing.
Clark abandoned the very people who were paying his bills. Clark abandoned the people that funded his millions. Does this tell us something about ethics? He was in full compliance after all-- the EPA and fire dept claims were disputed in the WSJ.
Walker never explained their reasons for deciding to go to china six months ago. If walker did not know about any impending closure, then he would have had a PR campaign, and word would have been out among the shaping community to be ready for thousands of walker blanks months ahead of time. Yet no shaper heard a thing. If I were going to be managing a factory producing thousands of widgets a day, I would tell every person in the widget market and in my personal network that 'i’m a gonna be ready in some months, so you better get ready for me. ’ Um, Mr Linden? Um, Mr Walker? Why was the walker factory movement on the down low?
What are we to expect from a company who was in on the plan? Will the future largest blank manufacturer also abandon and mistreat the very people who foot the bill? Perhaps the future largest blank manufacturer already has mistreated the people that will pay for the food on his table.
What we need in this industry are some fresh ethics.
No secrets about this. Walker signed a deal with the Chinese 6 months ago. He knew nothing about Clark closing. The deal with China was purely a deal so that the Chinese factory would have blanks to build boards rather than continuing to buy from Australia. There was never any intention of those blanks coming to the US as blanks. They were always going to be finished boards. That is why Walker never mentioned it. Besides, what would be the response from shapers if he had announced it? it would have been “go die”. Now that Clark is down it is a different story. Shapers think he’s saving the industry.
Walker signed a deal with the Chinese because he was dead in the water. Hell, he owed the wood people THOUSANDS for stringer material. Practically nobody was using his blanks (relatively speaking). He was just trying to save his ass and make a living. Why should the Aussies have a corner on the blank market to China? if those boards are coming to the US anyway, shouldn’t a blank man in the US at least be a player?
If you have a business plan to cut the price of blanks of the largest supplier(Clark) you say nothing until you have your product in hand. Then Walker could flood the market with blanks at 2/3rd the price of Clark and get market share from 1% to maybe 20%. If Walker knew Clark was done - HE WOULD HAVE HAD 2000 BLANKS ON BLACK MONDAY READY FOR SALE!!
I think taikai has a point – otis you seem to be full of speculative drivel yourself, seeing that taikai is thinking logically – clark could never substantiate his claims to being shut down by the EPA or the fire dept. If there was a wrongful death lawsuit against him, then it would be public record. Several of clark’s statements are false. What else are we to believe of clark’s claims? And how the hell did I get a hand signed letter from clark that was 6 pages (the infamous fax?) long, detailing his decision and sent (postmarked) on monday the 5th - the same day that the EPA supposedly shut him down? Everyone got the fax, and everyone got a hand signed, computer printed letter. You gonna tell me that clark sent all his accounts a hand signed letter on the 5th, a day of utter chaos? Well planned move.
China doesn’t put out that many finished boards. To go to china you really gotta have a plan. If the plan was for walker to produce blanks for the chinese fiberglass boards, then he would have been going head to head against the australian company doing blanks over there. On top of that, if the chinese were going to be making blanks for themselves, then they would have had the boards done and ready way before 6 months were up. Really, the chinese manufacturing process aint that slow. Secondly, if it were going to be mainly a factory to create blanks for chinese surfboard manufacture, then they would have had a chinese factory manager on the project. Instead they have gary linden. The australian company in china blowing foam is run by a chinese project manager, who communicates with the chinese board manufacturing process over there.
In response to carmine surf – perhaps the reason that they don’t have 2000 blanks in hand is because linden isn’t chinese. I agree with taikai in that don’t you think that you would have 2000 blanks in hand after 6 whole friggin months? Even if it took you 3 months to set up shop, that gives you 90 days. in 90 days, if you make 20 blanks a day, you are at 1800 blanks. In china, to make 20 blanks a day, you would be a laughing stock, losing money. Nobody sets up shop in china to make 20, or even 25 blanks a day. Oh, but carminesurf, you believe that walker went over there to just make 20 finished boards a day??? another silly supposition.
Carminesurf, PLEASE, THIS IS JUST LOGIC. if that was business, then walker would have had the worst business plan in the world. I second the motion of taikai – and question the business ethics of walker.
I think taikai has a point – otis you seem to be full of speculative drivel yourself, seeing that taikai is thinking logically –
except that my comment said …more speculative xxxxxxx… being that Taikai had started a 2nd identical thread within 20 minutes with the same post. Wise up!
Wise up? Taikai’s comments are reasonable and well founded. Who cares how many times the thing is posted, it says newbie so perhaps the guy is still figuring this website out. On the other hand, Otis, for being so experienced yourself, what kind of contribution have your comments offered? What kind of intellect or constructive criticism have you offered along this string? Lets all wise up and contribute comments that are thoughtful. I’m continuing to side with the australians, and any other american company that is honest.
Wise up? Taikai’s comments are reasonable and well founded. Who cares how many times the thing is posted, it says newbie so perhaps the guy is still figuring this website out.
Okay Otis, your comment still contributes no thought. On top of that, you seem to try to rip on taikai because he/she posted twice, perhaps this is more of a statement because he/she wanted to make a statement in the industry forum and also the general discussion. You on the other hand, are at fault of the very thing that you complain of, a double posting. You already said that it was posted twice, does that make taikai’s statements any less thoughtful? Big effing deal. Can you make reason of clark’s claims, or of walkers? I think the whole point of this discussion thread is that taikai is still looking for explanations to logical reasoning that suggests clark and walker are in cahoots. If this is the case, then what have you, or anybody to say of the business ethics of the foam industry leaders? really otis, LETS WISE UP - use some brains. Can you offer any reasoning or counter reasoning, other than good ol american spirit, on the business ethics of walker or clark? JEEz, lets read this for content rather than focus on the frequency of postings to use as whether or not something is valid or not. ]
Can anybody offer a counter argument, rather than just saying that ‘taikai doesn’t knows less than everyone else on what is going on’? What taikai stated are facts about walker moving to china with no rhyme or reason 6 months ago, and clark’s unsubstantiated claims to EPA and fire dept codes. Has anybody found the public record of lawsuits against clark yet? Lets break down some facts, and do some reasoning.
pierpontscott, In saying what you just said, you are suggesting that you know what most people know about it. You also seem to know walker and all his employees personally, to make such a statement. What makes you so sure of what you just said?
AGAIN, taikai is searching for reason based on FACTS. AGAIN, walker is missing some reasons. AGAIN, clark told some LIES. AGAIN: The question remains of what are the business ethics of the future foam industry leaders?
Okay so here is another reply within 20 minutes, so what otis, does this make any of this statement invalid?
clark wanted to retire. guys been doin’ it for years. he self engineered everything from formula to machinery. shaping needed a shot in the arm. clark sold blanks to home (depot) guys and backyarders even when surfboard manufacturers screamed no. clark brought standardization. for that clark has my thanks. clark is doling out blanks so everyone can have some, instead of auctioning them off to the highest bidder. epoxy ninjas needed a time for their jihad. alot of people are hurting because they built a house on a foundation that was solid, but forgot about earth quakes and tsumami’s . earthquake insurance. disaster planning. be thankful, life goes easier if you are. china and surftech can grab more market share. the surf industry that sits on the foundation laid by shapers has offered some help (how much is debatable in another thread). you must pay more for US boards. But you can still get aussie boards for cheap prices pbm (preblackmonday) or even free (if you borrow the auslocks board and pass it on). there are alternatives to pu / pe. swaylocks is still here. even pu alternatives to clark is in the works.
beat a dead horse, and it’s still dead. there is a way to revive a dead horse but that is to be saved for another thread.
we had it all good. i could whine about ’ it used to work’, but that is lost. i dunno what to do, so i just bust a move. what if post has a way to change it. I think it is one of bill and oneula’s posts.
you’ve got a horse dead and kilos to move. checkmate. what’s your move?
if clark and walker were in cahoots why has clark been trying with his business practices to edge out the competion for years since say the 60s. i knew about the china deal in july and walker was going to be bring in blanks as people were always complaning about his prices being higher than clarks, as well as suppling a chinese board maker with a great foam recipe. did you ever buy a walker blank before 12/5? doubt it. they could not believe clark shut down and were just as suprised as the rest of the surfing world. Have been doing business with walker for the past year i can say they have never been unethical. If nothing else they helped make my business succeed were other were not interested so unless you know harold or joe this post should end. and since clark was a private business he had every right to shut his doors at any time which he stated he would 10 yrs ago . so was clark in cahoots with all the other foam manufactures around the world too that were stymeed by him?
i tell you what. i am an absolute nobody in this world. i make some boards every year for family and the occasional friend. and that’s all.
none of this makes any sense at all.
there is a gaping hole in the surf industry that used to be filled with clark blanks selling for 50 - 150 retail to anyone who had cash in hand.
i am so surprised that no one with any interest in making the sort of $$$ that allowed mr clark to throw 500K - 1M per year to fix epa problems has stepped in.
but really. the technology is readily available to build poly blanks. there are experienced workers in this field who have no jobs (or perhaps they received a really nice severance package?). but how much can a startup cost? get set up to blow 6 basic blanks from 6 to 11 feet. then use profits to produce more and more custom plugs and molds. how much can it cost? to gain entry into an industry that will purchase every single blank you produce and be willing to stand in line for them?
so how much would that cost…maybe a quarter of a million. are there no venture capitalists left?
i don’t know. like i said…i am nobody and i know no one in the industry. nor, due to a life spent pretty much surfing at every spare moment, do i have any $$$ to fund such a start up.
so everyone is just turning their backs on this opportunity?
hmmmmmmm. probably not. i can wait another few months for the new line of “just like clark only better” blanks to become available.
What you are witnessing is change and sometimes it is difficult to accept. EPA regulations are in place for a reason, so that’s why people who want to continue making PU blanks are already doing it out of the country, or will soon have to. It is clear why they can do it in other countries… No one looking out for the environment and $$Money$$.
What happens when we start relying on other countries for blanks? We end up in a similar Clark situation. What happens when they decide to jack the price? What happens when they decide to stop making blanks and just sell us the surfboards? They will know that all the smaller blank makers in the U.S. have been forced out of business. EPS is lighter, stronger, and definitely more available in the U.S. In addition, my experience with Epoxy Resin has proven that it is easier to work with and 1/3 the amount of the resin is used, in comparison to the polyester resin. Let’s keep all aspects of the surfboard industry here in the United States if at all possible!
Paul
“If you’re not riding the wave of change you may find yourself beneath it.”
that “home grown foam” booth is about the coolest thing i have seen in regards to surfing in a long long time… love the handmade signs. i’d buy a blank from them if there was no more eps…
