Link to a video on shark skin and propulsion…
The interesting part is the conclusion under the video…
Hi Reverb,
I did not mean to offend anyone and if I did I apologize. Someone sent a picture of a few guys is wetsuits with booties calling them kooks, I was just replying to that but I guess made a joke in poor taste. You are right it does not matter what you look like if surfing is your passion, does not matter if you wear a wetsuit during summer or not.
My local beach I’m the guy who gets all the weird looks becuase I wear booties where the water is always warm and we have soft sandy bottom. Most guys and gals are too caught up in what is being marketed to them so anyone who is doing something outside the mainstream is looked down upon and branded a kook. Trust me too often I get that disapproving look from those that show up only on the weekends and they are typically the ones with disposable boards that have a thousand product logos on them.
My intension to posting is not to create a mystery but to see what others think. If I were to outright say what it was that I was doing I probably would get some good feed back along with some negative ones. This way I think I engaged a few people who really took some time to consider what I was doing, how it was done and if there could be a market for it or not. To those people I am really greatful to taking time to think about it.
However, it seems that after counting all the feed back that I got the overwhelming number of people are happy to remain with products they know and trust. Only about 10% where either intrequed or supportive.
The conclusion I’m beining to reach is that like you have stated anything needs to have tons of money thrown at it to be marketed just so people would try it. Whatever the product is as long as someone with a recognizable name promotes it the crowd will want it no matter if its crap or not. Although I’m relatively new to surfing I always become knowledgable about the history of what interests me. There was a time its seems in the 40s, 50s and 60s before the marketing machines set in that people tinkered a lot with new shapes, laminations techniques and such. After the 70s when the pro scene set in it all became about having compatitions to market boards, shorts, anything associated with surfing that you could make people buy. Just walk into any surf shop today and look at all those products sun glasses, beach attire, watches, sandels, stickers, and energy drinks all priced well over what you’d pay for them in a regular store. Seems to me all you need is a surfboard, pair of shorts a leash and a heart to go out and make the impossible happen.
In a documentary I heard a young pro say that he is more the soul surfer than anyone else because he was out there day after day working harder than anyone else so he could win competitions and make money. I thought a soul surfer was someone who inner core was about simply about surfing, someone who understood its history and traditions. Ask anyone today who Duke was and see what the response is.
Sorry about the rant anyways, I just waiting to hear back from someone and I’ll know which way to go myself.
Derived from the 2012 peer-reviewed Harvard U. research article:
http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~glauder/reprints_unzipped/Oeffner.Lauder.2012.pdf
I read the article and had been told by a friend in boating that an American team won a sailing competition by applying a special coating that mimiced shark skin on the yacht. Its nice to see you have the scientific publication to explain it.
The publication seems to state that the greatest reduction in drag were seen in self propelling bodies that were not rigid. Since a surfboard is a rigid body according to the publication the reduction in drag should be less.
Have you tried applying something under a surfboard to notice any better performance in the board?
See PM.
a better designed board for the conditions you are surfing will give you much better results as far as board speed than any surface coating you can apply to the outside of a board.
Did all my bottom coating experirnents in the early 70’s
sanded finish, soap, crushed alkaseltzer,carnuba wax, wd40, silicone spray, rubber ribs, boogie board foam.
design won out in the end
rocker,outline, bottom, rails, and of course fins
but i like the idea of not having to worry about wax
one less thing to worry about
One perhaps overlooked market is the SUP pers. This is a fairly new aspect of surfing that is drawing in all sorts of people without the preconceived notions of what is cool. They are spending money on new products and upwards of $350 for paddles etc. I also don’t think that it would be a stretch to have them wear booties all the time.
On a personal note I just recently built a SUP after many years of hating. I know and agree with the aurguments against barges in the line up but I feel that the “cool” image of surfing kept me from something immensly rewarding. When I completed it I was dissapointed to find that a deck pad was going to cost upwards of $100 and would cover my nice bamboo veneer deck. I started following this thread intrigued at finding a better alternative not for my shortbaoards but the SUP.
Good luck
Andy
Andy et all,
Thanks for all those interested in the thread. I cannot believe that my first thread on the forum got so much reads. I thank everyone for their input, advice and support.
After thinking about it for some time and some soul searching I cannot try to profit from something that I experimented with that turned out to work for me; had I actually invented the product that would be different.
**Please if you plan on applying this material to your board beware of the consequences. It is nearly permanent and will take a lot of effort to get it off your board. Don’t not attempt it on your favorite board, do it on an old one, buy used one online or the Costco $100 wavestorm before you do this on your boards.** I did it on mine and took the risk after I experimented on a board that I shaped for the purpose of experimentation.
You need to be in a well-ventilated space and let the board cure for at least 24 hours. After 48 hours it is completely cured. Also its good to wear eye protection as this product uses an acid to cure. There is a pic of the product and tools I used.
The product is Silicone caulk designed for aquariums. You can purchase it in any pet shop. Since it is designed for aquariums it will not harm marine life.
As for the method of application I placed tape along the rails, and then I laid down a bead of caulk going in a continuous S shape pattern that was about 3 to 4 inches wide rail to rail. I used a regular putty knife to smooth it down to a thin coating and the excess I applied right next to it expanding the width of the section. I tried to get the application as thin as I could; if it gets too thick it will cure cloudy. Then using a putty knife that had teeth notched in it I created the ridges. The whole thing as to be done in about 4 to 5" sections as the silicon hardens fast and you have to work while you can still tool it and you get really 5 to 10 minutes per section.
The best application I got so far was on the yellow short board. But it’s not perfect as surfing that board has shown how it can be improved. I first finished the entire board then pulled the tape off but that has left a ridge of ribbed silicone down the length of the rails. It’s better to pull the tape back one section at a time and then use the regular putty knife to smooth the edge down into the rail.
Silicon is extremely hydrophobic and slippery when wet; the ridges act as treads on a tire but still to slipper for bare feet. You overcome the slickness in one of two ways. One by creating a lot of contact surface area between you and the silicon which happens when you are prone and paddling; bare chest I have no problems slipping off the board. I do slip once in a while but that's more due to me being a novice and taking the wave at the wrong time. Bare foot its really tricky to overcome the slickness; you have to change your popup and plant your feet flat and dead on; if you have your back foot at an angle with the ball of the foot and heel only touching during a popup you’re going to slip off. Forget walking a long board barefoot.
The best way of creating traction is to wear something that creates a high coefficient of friction with silicon such as rubber or silicon soled booties; since I surf in warm waters I use the Xcel reef booty that is 1mm thick; it’s almost like wearing a sock. The amount of friction is so high that it feels like your glued to the board, or at least that is what I think. If you do wear a rash guard you will get a high CoF as well and I think it would too with neoprene but I have not tired a wetsuit yet. I live in South Florida and right now it’s a bit late to wear a wetsuit to try it out.
I did not try just a smooth finish but I think that would work too as the CoF between the booty and silicone will be high anyhow. I am willing to try but ran out of boards and money to do another experiment.
After having tested many substances this the best I have found so far, although I found a clear silicon/latex blend to be softer. This product gets a bit hard but retains elastic properties once fully cured. That’s how surf wax works one its hydrophobic and most important its elastic; when pressure is applied to it, it stretches causing the traction needed. But after repeated use it gets compacted and hard and become less elastic, that is why you comb it before you go out and apply a new coat. Wax also has a lot of petro chemicals in it but the manufacturers do not advertise that to you.
Nothing will stick to silicone, when you take your board out of the water the sand, seaweed, hair everything will wash right off. Hose it down and it’s clean as the day you applied it. Silicon is also UV stable and not a whole lot of chemicals will harm it. It also retains it elasticity in a wide range of water temperatures. Best of all it does not melt.
I have used two brands thus far the one in the pic by Marineland adheres really strong. The other I tried is by American Sealants and can be found on Amazon.com and is less hard than the previous one once fully cured.
Well that’s it really. For those of you willing to try please do so on a used or inexpensive board try it out in your waters, for a couple of months and make your own conclusions.
Best Regards,
I surf therefor I live.
in the early 70’s we used to use silicone sealant as an emergency ding repair solution when there was no resin
the secret tom morey suggested was to use ice cubes as your squeegee as it doesn’t stick to the silicone as you spread it around
Whatever you say. You are the pro shaper.
I request nothing from you.
Your request is granted.
Damn ! Pirate_agenda gets the grand prize !!! Give him a prize. Wood_Ogre gets a stick in the eye twice ! What a dumb shit Wood_Ogre !! But now if I can figure out how to spray silicone from a spatter gun ! But then the light balb is turned on and Wood_Ogre is off to the bunker to try new and exciting experiments .Like maybe clear latex or something. Bet I can cook something up in a preasure cooker !!
There are no winners or loosers, in the end we all catch a wave.
LMAO…did Roy just punk everybody?
Estoy agradecido …