I think I’m going to use the Four Way Fin System / 4WFS on my next board http://www.4wfs.com/ but I’ll probably make my own fins.
I have some questions please…
Do single tab FCS fins fit 4WFS boxes, and if not, how difficult is it to modify them to fit?
And will RedX and LokBox fins fit 4WFS boxes? And if they don’t fit, how difficult is it to modify them to fit 4WFS boxes too?
If you didn’t use the 4WFS installation jig, what did you use to install their UTG (Under The Glass) boxes? I’m thinking a hole saw might work but wonder what tool would be best to grind out the foam for that tab that extends out the back of the UTG box?
How are you buying them? I’m in Carlsbad and am concerned that shipping from Australia will make them too expensive. Does anyone know if that guy in San Clemente is still selling 4WFS boxes and discs and how I can contact him?
1.You would have to cast onto or lay up a bigger tab (thickness and length) onto the fcs one. 4wfs has some cant built into the tab so you may have to add that at this stage to the fcs tab depending if you could get the cant range you wanted with the 4wfs interdisks.
Same for lokbox. Some building up to the thickness but also cut down the length of the Lockbox tab taking into account any weakness due to the Lokbox reatining system slot on the fin base… Not had any RedX.
Both these seem only practical if using glass fins and as single tab would guess nubster centre or twinzer canards. Shame to butcher existing fins when its possible to make the whole fin for 4wfs.
3.Only done the OTG not the Nanopods though I have the router jigs for both. Really like having the right tools for the install and couldn’t see myself grinding out foam /holesaws etc. The nice thing about the intallation is the fin cant is built into the fins and changed by the interdisk inserts so the 4wfs box is installed level with the bottom of the board and so pretty foolproof and easy with the correct tools. I dont think you have to have the rear extending tab though is good idea regarding back of fin base damage to board. I seem to remember they can be snapped/cut off.
I am in UK so have had the 4way stuff sent first from South Africa and then later all from Australia. Really good service and you can find out how much tax and duty you will have to pay on the items plus shipping using an on line duty calculator.
Really like 4wfs. Got fed up with glassers doing poor fin box installs still continuing to this day from reputable companies so if I order a custom board I am going back to asking shapers to supply a glassed board with fin marks and retrofiting OTG 4wfs boxes myself. If I shaped myself I would use the UTG Nanopods
Since most thrusters and quads fins have 4 to 6 degrees of cant (I think), and 4WFS discs come with 0, 2, 4, or 6 degrees of cant, why does 4WFS put cant in their fins? To accomodate the angle of the bottom, like maybe a V in the tail??
Yes to accommodate v or concave. Very usefull that they have 6 degrees cant in the fins. A concave bottom for example can mean that a combination of a 4 or 6 degree interdisk is needed with the 6 degree canted fin .Rather than do the fins without any cant ( like fcs) and have say 12 degree interdisks which probably would push the integrety of the interdisk. I did modify some and make 8 degrees but you start running out of interdisk wall thickness… Really its a well thought out system that works. The interdisks can be turned 180 degrees to enable more cant options.
Forward and backward fin movement is less than say Lokbox and Probox but still handy. The cant and toe in are so useful for experiment and dialing in boards. The small footprint specially of the OTG box is useful for grouping fins closely eg Twinzer canards. The 4way fins generally have a thicker foil also which I like.
Its not as rock solid as glass on fins but better than old style 2 tabbed fcs due to thicker single tab. Better than Futures (with the variation in slot of fin thickness often causing wobbly fins and it doesnt rely on one metal grub screw into plastic). Nicer than Probox which contary to most view is not so brilliant with orginal 2 tab fcs without modifying those tabs with a v groove.
I was thinking about installing these into some boards. I emailed Adam last night, but he’s no longer repping for them.
For shvts and giggles, i loaded up the shopping cart with the jigs and pods from the website, entered in my address, and it quoted me only $8 for shipping. I’m in San Juan Capistrano, BTW.
Getting low volume/low weight items from major international locations is really affordable and fast these days. Ideally a local rep would be nice as well as retailers stocking the system but realistically just come to terms with planning ahead and get from abroad. As long as you get the quality.
Check your currency rates against the AUS Dollar. Pretty good for us here in the UK with a Pound worth 1.9 Aus Dollars I think.
I find the UTG Nano pods and the OTG boxes aesthetically very pleasing installed in a board.
I don’t want to spend $115 on the 4WFS jig so I was thinking of either making my own jig or perhaps use a hole saw. My concern is that a hole saw will tear up the EPS.
huie - Did you use the 4WFS jig to rout out such clean holes?
Maybe I’m losing my mind here but I checked this thread earlier while on the road with my phone and there was a comment where someone offered to send me info for making a 4WFS jig. That comment is gone now. Anyway, to answer your questions… Yes, I know my way around tools (I used to be a cabinetmaker) and I would be very interested in plans for making a jig please.
huie - I looked at the photo of your board again and was wondering why you set the bases with cant when you can add cant later?
ghostshaper - It seems like it would be really easy to make a jig for the flange area. You’d rout out the flange area using the jig and follow with the hole saw. What do you think?
I’ve been emailing 4WFS with questions and the guy who wrote back said they are really busy with Christmas stuff right now. It sounds like the rep here only carries the UTG boxes and discs, which is okay with me cuz I was going to make my own fins. The guy in Australia, not Dean, told me to email him a list of what I need and he would work up a price.
If SJC means San Jose then I guess that won’t work cuz I’m way down in San Diego. Thanks though.
Maybe I’m losing my mind here but I checked this thread earlier while on the road with my phone and there was a comment where someone offered to send me info for making a 4WFS jig. That comment is gone now. Anyway, to answer your questions… Yes, I know my way around tools (I used to be a cabinetmaker) and I would be very interested in plans for making a jig please.
no u r nt losing your mind i deleted it i live an ocean away
huie - I looked at the photo of your board again and was wondering why you set the bases with cant when you can add cant later?
wrong they are set flush the discs supply the cant unles you are wanting more than 6deg
huie - Ooops, I mistakenly said cant when I should have said toe. Sorry about that. So my question is, why did you set the boxes in the foam with toe when you can add toe later with the discs? Why not set them straight with no toe, as in parallel to the stringer? And sure, I’d like to see the specs. You can PM them or just reply here so others can see them. Do you use the McKee configuration for your quads?
ghostshaper - I heard there was a rep in Dana Pt (and probably from this forum) but the guy in Australia hasn’t given me his contact info yet. I’ll email him again after Christmas to remind him because he said that guy doesn’t have fins but he does have boxes and discs. I’ll report back here when I get the guys info and would appreciate that you do the same if you hear back before me.
Are you going to make your own fins? Someone a while ago on this forum said that RedX fins fit with minimal modification and allow 3/4" of fore and aft adjustment.
Unless I’m missing something here, the 4WFS seems like a superior system to all the others so its too bad they can’t get them off the ground here in the US. I think the problem is that installers make their money piece-meal and don’t want the hassles of changing to a new system, plus, anyone that comes out with a new system is facing a serious uphill battle with the two biggies, FCS and Futures, with their huge selection of fins and massive distribution.
huie - Ooops, I mistakenly said cant when I should have said toe. Sorry about that. So my question is, why did you set the boxes in the foam with toe when you can add toe later with the discs? Why not set them straight with no toe, as in parallel to the stringer? And sure, I’d like to see the specs. You can PM them or just reply here so others can see them. Do you use the McKee configuration for your quads?
ahh the toe. why? ** well for those that wish to snap the tab off. you will find these people miss the real use of it. hence why it is set in toe
if you value your surfboard and intend to keep it in tact. then this system is the best. as well the board in pic was built to a purpose.**
**haaa’’ you dont know me very well? i offer help and you give me instructions. very funny’'.
ring maike on this number 55804469 you need the international code for that qld australia.
i will not be putting the manufacturers specs on the world net**
**and people on here acuse me of not wanting to help
i wonder why**
my advice ring the number i gave get the jig for u t g. learn to use it’’ make your own fins money well spent.
I’ve seen some wooden fins you sent Todd. Do you ever have any issues with the grub screws digging through the glass and into the wooden bases? I’m planning on making my own fins if I switch to 4FWS.
I’ve seen some wooden fins you sent Todd. Do you ever have any issues with the grub screws digging through the glass and into the wooden bases? I’m planning on making my own fins if I switch to 4FWS.
**i think no i am sure i have never sent tod wooden fins? maybe you seen some little twinzer sides i may have done that
any way i recomend you use 4 w s f u t g for all your own boards . (they just do not seem to be fashionable by the sheeple)
whenever i can convice the customer i use them and custom the fins these days in epoxy vac lay up hand foiled **
You have a +/-4° degree of movement, but I can’t see a reason why you might want a negative toe-in (toe-out), so you might as well set the boxes at 4° of toe-in. That way you can set your fins at any amount of toe, from parallel to an extreme 8° of toe-in.
Oh, and chill Huie, I reckon he ain’t giving you criticism, just seeking knowledge.
gadgetuk - Right, no toe out, but I do want to experiment with no toe. I understand now why I should set the boxes at 4 degree’s and thanks for explaining that.
