Just shaped myself a new quad out of ice 9 foam. The blank shaped like butter, and was as light as most foam I’ve been using. The closed cell structure made for a super light board when finished. It has great flex and just feels good. Can’t wait to try it!
Nice.
How much glass are you using?
Craftee, I used 4oz bottom, and 4sx4oz deck, Steve.
That board looks great! Which Ice9 foam did you choose, and which weight?
Etmo, it was there normal weight, equivalent to a super blue!
I’ve used the Bantam Weight blank and it shaped great too. 6x4 top and a 6 bottom is over kill. Strong as concrete. You could get away with a single 6 top.
That quad looks great.
Right on…the Ice NIne guys deserve a lot of credit for developing this approach. As I stated somewhere else, there have been some boards that have gone out and surfed on surfari in Oz and Puerto Rico and came back w/out any dents…with one layer of 4 oz on the decks.
I don’t know about anybody else, but if i am putting out boards where my glass schedule can drop a layer I just put some dough in my pocket. Either that or I’m helping make my retail accounts more competitive.
The truth of the matter is the foam has some cross linked characteristics to it that other foams do not…inherent to the material. And the flex is very lively. Good rebound and excellent compression are two very good traits to have.
I’m going to be watching this thread and will be doing about 10 of the Ice Nine blanks in the next couple weeks…I’ll post more info here when I get into it.
I checked to be sure and the blank weight I gave Steve was Fly, which is our lightest. We have four main weights. From lightest to heaviest they are Fly, Bantam, Feather & Welter. We have recently started making extra heavy blanks for tow-in boards too.
Chris
I worked with Ice-9 when they first got going. They have come a long way.
The foam looks pretty good. I will shape one today and have it glassed with
4oz top and bottom single both sides.
My son will test pilot and provide feedback.
Grimmer, would Ice9 recommend only one layer of glass on the deck?
Grimmer, would Ice9 recommend only one layer of glass on the deck?
Just to jump in here…I don’t think any blank manufacturers are likely to recommend glass schedules as a rule, even if they can confirm the single 4 oz. story, most evryone (to date) hasn’t had the balls to do it…I’m doing the same deal as surfding and making a test board, except the board is going to be a demo for check out to a bunch of different people.
…in other words, I want the thing to get handled in a variety of situations that may be less than ideal…real life test, ya know?
In another thread I’ve been sourcing for some material that was once referred to as “MPV” (Modified Poly Vinyl")…some of the guys in OZ have contacted me on this…pretty sure the nylon stuff they have is it or close to it…there’s been a hammer test done on it and the board was super strong…this stuff can be a bitch to work with, so the usual M.O. is to veil it with 4 oz…but depending on all the considerations that the Ice Nine blanks can offer, I may be looking to veil it with 2 oz. or perhaps even surfacing veil (used in decopage).
The significance of this is the ability to make a very strong handshaped custom or even CNC milled or machined and finished production custom. I can’t really bring myself to calling machined boards more than a ‘production’ custom. One offs are one offs. Anyway, it would be nice to close the gap between so called ‘indestructible’ molded or sandwich construction boards and true handshaped customs.
The more we innovate and advance, the more of a nightmare it will be for all the sell outs over in China and Thailand to have to train their people, at least on conventional looking airbrushed and tinted boards…they can have the molded plastic look as far as I’m concerned. Go flick your Bic.
Chris, I rode the board yesterday in 3-5 ft surf. Once I found the sweet spot, which took a couple or so waves, this is what I found out. Compared to my old board, which was a surfblank australia that I rode for a year, there are obvious differances. First thing I noticed was doing my bottom turn. Seemed to be a little mushy or slower in and out of the bottom turn. This could be due to the flex of the blank, or maybe the difference between board rocker, the new one has a little more. When I got it up in the lip, it seemed to follow thru in and out of the turn with a lot more speed, and smoother, I think because of the flex differences. All in all, I was pleased with the results, and with any new board, it takes a little time to get em wired, so I’m looking forward to my next session! Another thing which could come into play is fins. I’ve been using Lokbox since it’s inception, and I put a set of RTM fins from Rainbow Fin Co. on the new stick. My old stick has a set of bamboo fins from . The foil is thinner, and the flex is defferent. My next go out will be with the bamboo’s, and I’ll let you know what happens! Chris, thanks for the blank, you guys are going in the right direction, and if this board holds up structurely, and can hold up under my feet, I’m real hard on my boards, you’ll get my business, Steve.
Shoot. Before Grimmer goes ahead and recommends single 4 on the deck I better jump in! 
Here’s the science. One of the mechanical properties of foam that has great relevance to surfing is “compression strength in the direction of rise”. Compression strength measures how much force it takes to deform the foam. With all foams there is usually a difference in the compressive force depending on whether you are applying the force in the direction that the foam rose as it was formed or whether you apply the force perpendicular to the direction of rise. (Usually the compressive force perpendicular to rise is less then the force in the direction of rise.) Since the boards are poured flat (as opposed to on edge) the direction of rise relates to denting of the deck.
The chemistry is such that with an MDI isocyanate it is possible to achieve higher compressive strength then when using a TDI isocyanate. (Of course, this is a general rule of thumb as it is possible to make an MDI foam that doesn’t perform as well as a TDI in this property as we ourselves experienced in our early attempts at developing MDI formulas.) Now that our CANE formula is in final development we are seeing this benefit of MDI come to fruition. We have heard many reports from riders regarding the foams resilience.
As a result many boards have been glassed with single 4 on the deck with positive results. One board we heard about broke fairly quickly but the rider said the particular wipe-out he took might have broken any board. Who’s to say. Ice-Nine doesn’t go so far as to make it a recommendation, but can say that many have done it with positive results. However, if a rider is heavy on their feet, the waves are very big, the wipe out is just so, etc. then the single 4 on the deck might not be the thing to do. The one thing that can be said is that with the MDI technology you should see improved dent resistance.
FWIW, we’ve done every test board with single 4 on both sides. The foam rides very well.
Minimal denting with riders who normally crush double-4 decks. With that said, my newest
shortboard is going to have front and back foot patches to see if any denting will occur but
without getting a heavier board.
Heavier is a relative term here, we also found that the laminations can be scraped-out dry and
still show no pin airs.
Be very careful during sand-out, since a burn-through on single 4 deck/rail can be a deal-breaker…
The problem I see with single layer decks is more related to having only 2 layers wrapping the rails as opposed to 3, then to dentage. The downsides are …easier to ding the rails, more likely to buckle/break, more denting and of course possible increased flex. That being said I’m also seeing way better results with some of the new foam (ice9 included) than whenever we tried single layer lams in the past with the lighter Clark blanks. Way better. On the flex end, and certainly worthy of discussion, is guys Like TK that claim they not only like, but require the added flex between their feet on a single layer lammed shortboard to be able to do their thing. I remember seeing some of the first Ice9’s that Brian Bulkley brought by and seems they have progressed alot. Cheers on that!
…the board is going to be a demo for check out to a bunch of different people.
…in other words, I want the thing to get handled in a variety of situations that may be less than ideal…real life test, ya know?
It just has a standard glass job as far as I know, but John Mel shaped a fish back in August that’s been on Freeline’s demo rack in Santa Cruz for a few months now with nary a ding or compression. He named it the “Sugar Schlong.” Anybody up in this neck of the woods can go by his shop to take a look.
Thanks Kip for the bit of info…I reall ylike the feel of your foam. People need to get out there and try stuff if they want to stay ahead of the game.
aloha
“That being said I’m also seeing way better results with some of the new foam (ice9 included) than whenever we tried single layer lams in the past with the lighter Clark blanks. Way better.”
Agreed, the new foam is in a completely different category. I could never have a Clark ultralight last as long with
double 4oz on the deck as I have with a single 4oz on the Ice-9 flyweight along with another brand we’ve been
testing…
…I’ve got a single 4 board that has continued staying lively for almost 2 months now, which in the past was unheard of. I’ve been abusing it pretty hard, to the point where we are considering a production lay-up schedule based upon this performance.
The problem I see with single layer decks is more related to having only 2 layers wrapping the rails as opposed to 3, then to dentage. The downsides are …easier to ding the rails, more likely to buckle/break, more denting and of course possible increased flex. That being said I’m also seeing way better results with some of the new foam (ice9 included) than whenever we tried single layer lams in the past with the lighter Clark blanks. Way better. On the flex end, and certainly worthy of discussion, is guys Like TK that claim they not only like, but require the added flex between their feet on a single layer lammed shortboard to be able to do their thing. I remember seeing some of the first Ice9’s that Brian Bulkley brought by and seems they have progressed alot. Cheers on that!
If the rail impact strength is an issue than additional cloth along the rail could easily be added. Of course this changes the flexural dynamics of a single layered deck but as I’ve said before for what you get you give up something.
In another thread (stringerless longboards) I outline a stagger lapped schedule for EPS 9’1’s that I have weighing in at 9.6 lbs. …the boards are being surfed in double to triple overhead NorCal groundswell and are showing no signs of breakage w/out stringers. I plan on doing a Fly in Ice Nine w/out a stringer with single deck and extra rail layers of warp glass. I want to take the wood center stringer out of the equation altogether and may implement a ‘tensioning device’ that can vary flexural capabilities, but nothing like the Tinkler Tails of yesteryear…sometimes I like high tech results using low tech approaches…we’ll see what I can cook up?
It’s a New Year, we get to start exploring all over again…DS
It's a New Year, we get to start exploring all over again.....................DS
Great, like I haven’t done enough of that already. Do you not find it hard to blend in multiple lap edges with staggered laps? Or are sand throughs on the fill coat covering the lap edges a problem? Was thinking of trying staggered laps but for the amount of work involved I think I might give it a miss.