Read all about the shaping of an Ice 9 blank (thanks guys for your input) got me interested in trying them but when I inquired to some of the guys here in Hawaii I was told that some of the glass shops here won’t guarantee their work because of problems w/ the blank melting. They say you can’t plug them or fin box them because the heat melts the foam. Any thoughts about this? Mahalo, Tripper
Howdy Tooltripper,
With our Cane foam we had problems last spring and summer. The problems were mostly related to FCS installation (I haven’t heard of any problems with other fin boxes) as well as some sulfur out-gassing we experienced with the glue we were using at that time. These issues showed up on some of the test blanks that were circulated on Maui, Kauai and Oahu. We have made substantial improvements in the quality of the foam and glue since that time. Dave Implom of Imua Glassing on Kauai just completed testing to develop an appropriate glassing spec for use in the Islands and has been glassing the boards without experiencing the problems that accompanied our earlier Cane formulations.
We are just beginning to get the word out and have begun distributing samples of the new Cane blanks in Hawaii. FYI.
Regards,
Lonely Tyrant
Aloha LT,
Appreciate the timely info. It appears that you all have a handle on fixing things and communicating w/ all involved. Doesn’t make sense not to give you guys a try. thanks again, Tripper
Lonely Tyrant,
Can you give us a simple statement that explains the difference between your Cane and Able blanks? From your website I could only glean subjective adspeak. No offense intended…I just need clarification.
I saw your booth at the Sacred Craft Show and took home a little cube of foam. It looked pretty good, and I’d like to shape a blank, but I need a distilled, real explanation of what makes the two foams different and desirable. And why two?
Thanks, Doug
Howdy Doug,
Happy to answer your questions and thanks for the interest. I will try to veer away from “subjective adspeak”.
First let me start with your question of why two foams as the answer strikes at the heart of one of our core beliefs as a company: that there is no single foam that is optimal for all styles and types of surfing. For us, the whole point of plastics is that the properties can be optimized depending on the application. So for now we have two foams but we expect to add many more as the years go by. Cane and Able are just the first two. Our goal is to provide shapers and riders with foams that offer a wide range of performance options.
As for the two foams in question Cane and Able, let’s first start with the formulations which are quite different. Polyurethanes are basically a two part mix where an isocyanate is mixed with a polyol. Both of the formulas use MDI as opposed to TDI which is used in most other blanks. MDI tends to cross-link more strongly and we feel has properties that can, in the right system, translate to enhanced performance such as increased flexural modulus or increased compression strength.
On the polyol side of the equation the two formulas are very different. Cane uses a sugar based polyether and Able uses a traditional polyester polyol. The surfactants and catalysts used by each are also very different.
The upshot is that the Able formula exhibits flexural properties that can be described as elastomeric. In fact we borrowed some chemistry from the polyurethane shoe sole market to achieve some of this rubbery attribute (polyurethane was originally invented as a replacement for rubber, rigid foam came much later). Able takes more work to shape then Cane due to these differences. Cane shapes more like the foams people are used to but was designed to hold it’s liveliness longer then TDI based foam blanks. This is a good example of what we mean by there not being a single foam right for all purposes as plastics design is always a trade-off. Able has enhanced flex whereas Cane is easier to shape. We couldn’t get the same level of flex without giving up some of the ease of shaping.
Cane is currently what is commercially available as the Able is still on a limited release as we go through the final in water tests.
Hope this helps you better understand the differences.
I
LonelyTyrant,
Thanks for the explanation. Your last few sentences summed it up nicely for me since I’m not a chemist or engineer:
“Able has enhanced flex whereas Cane is easier to shape.” and “Cane is currently what is commercially available as the Able is still on a limited release…”.
As a passionate, but low-volume shaper, the information I can use is: How it shapes. How it glasses. How it surfs. How it holds up.
So far, from what I’ve heard and seen, I think you have a good product and you are willing to make adjustments to improve it, based on public feedback. I’ll be giving your blanks a try in the future.
Thanks again for your response,
Doug
Howzit LT, Being a personal friend of Dave Implom I can say he is the right person to test your blanks. I will get in touch with himfor more info.Aloha,Kokua