I for one liked Walker foam, made some fine boards with it (including the one I’m riding in my avatar picture), and am happy to see the formula “live on” -
But I don’t think I would have used Walker foam exclusively for two years if I thought it was poorly made.
We will always subjective thinkers.
Harold Walker was Stubborn but not supid.
With his formula and Ice Nines state of the art molds and pouring application you have a blank that is light and tight.
I will make 5 boards from the same program - weight them before and after glassing - then to qualify performance I will have 5 professional surfers ride each of them. All five will be evaluated. No one will know what foam is which? They will be labed {A;B;C;D;E}.
This test will be completely non bias. I will use the Juran methods of testing in this model.
A full report with the results will be posted along with photographs and possible video.
The blanks to be tested:
US Blanks TDI
Ice Nine TDI
Ice Nine MDI
King Mac TDI
Bennett TDI
I could add few more to the test? (Blair, XCell, Elova, Surf Blanks America, Just Foam)
It could be like comsumer reports. If the blank companies provided the blanks and covered the glassing cost we could do a complete study.
I will write a more formal format for this testing before proceeding.
All blank companies will be invited.
Again this will be non bias.
Personally I like all of them.
Let the product speak.
I love that idea…lets have them all tested and see which ones comes out on top, once and for all!
then to qualify performance I will have 5 professional surfers ride each of them
Couldn’t that end up being a little opinionated? I still think it’s an excellent idea to test weight though across all blanks. Just need the same glasser to do all five boards. Break strength would be nice too but what sort of machinery would you need?
Chris from Ice9 came by yesterday with some blanks to show what they’re doing with the Walker TDI formula. I was quite impressed!! Nice tight cells, definitely a good surface for painting. These guys must be some kind of alchemists. If I hadn’t been told it was Walker, I would have never guessed. He left us with a fish blank to test out. I’m looking forward to put some color on it once it’s shaped.
Couldn’t that end up being a little opinionated?
The Ideal is to have it non opinionated by labeling them only by {A:B:C:D:E} It would be a blind study.
Just need the same glasser to do all five boards.
The same glasser will do all boards with the same glassing schedule in professional glass shop.
Sanding is also critical so the same sander for all boards as well.
Break strength would be nice too but what sort of machinery would you need?
I could set up a pneumatic ram with a psi gauge controlled by a regulator and measure how much pressure it takes to snap at the center - 12" from nose and tail.
However selling the boards after the testing could pay for the study if weight and performace was enough information. Most of the surfers I know expect to break a board from time to time. The most important factor for them is Weight and performance. From a shapers perpective each blank can be evaluated by shapeability and ease of finish.
This could get a bit crazy, but yes…same glasser, sander…but at the blank company same gluer? measured amounts of glue per blank? same tree for all the stringers? Same amount of pencil lead that is used when writing rocker names on the stringers? Do all the blank companies write rocker names on the stringers? If one company does and the other does not, how much weight is that? Can you duplicate that magic board? To do that you need to duplicate the magic blank. And from what I hear you will get some of those blanks you order the next day…The others you might get next summer.
any news on when the walker formula will be avalable also will harolds densities be available
isnt it funny to watch the prejudgement…has anyone seen the foam yet, planed , sanded, painted, surfed it yet? or just blah blah based on what angry competitors say…natas…foamhawaii…who’s foam do you represent?
Just jumping in here…Stu from Ice 9 gave me a 9’3" and 6’6"HPS of the Walker formula this afternoon. The foam is lighter than a Clark ultralight. The stuff I have is crispy on the outside…Stu said the cells are tight like the Cane and hard like Cane. So maybe it’s their equipment that is key on this…which will really piss off people that want them to fail.
These guys have a great attitude. They are progressive and all you naysayers can keep on your negative track if you so please…can’t never did nothing.
I was told the foam shapes fast w/out tearing and I’ll be cranking into it tomorrow.
I’ll get back to you ASAP.
Update…got hung up…todayi is Tuesday…planer starts in one hour…feedback soon.
Fuzzyseaslug:
I guess it’s a bad Ideal according to you.
I’ve seen the Ice Nine and it looked really good. The offer was to take a proven magic carpet and cut a bunch of them with different blanks from various companies and finish them as close to the same as possible. (Glassing Included)
This was just a way to get some kind of rating and standardizing our industry. Only a starting point.
Since I have a machine I thought is was a good Ideal to mill all the blanks from the same model.
If this is generating negativity I’ll have to pass and focus my energy on something more positve.
Perhaps you can do a better study with your Skill 100.
Sorry if your offended by my efforts.
Slow down there surfding. As foam is a core for surfboards, fun is the core of surfing. I was having some fun. There are quite a few variables in surfboard building which includes blank manufacturing. I am not anti Ice Nine…I feel that they are in the top 3 of the current blank companies right now. I do feel like the consumer was duped. They are green, but when it comes to the lack of green they are ok with not being green? But this is not about that. If there is going to be this standardizing of blanks, then it should come down to more than weight and performance.
The point I was making in my last post was that if you ordered the blanks from all the blank companies you mentioned 3 or 4 posts above....you would get some within a week if not the next day.....but the others sadly would be delivered by next summer. If anyone has ordered custom blanks from the mentioned blank companies they know its true. Maybe that should be a part of the test....customer service. How is it working with the companies? Are they following up with their promises? Consistancy of foam, glue ups, rockers, and service.
Dont let me or anyone put out your fire! Go for it man!
“Its not easy being green”. -Kermit the Frog-
Surfding,
I don’t think the idea is bad, but maybe unrealistic as you mentioned it with foam companies helping pay for the test pieces. If I had a foam company, what benefit do I get in having testing done that I have no control over and could potentially show results that say my foam sucks.
If you can get the testing done it would be a great piece of data for surfers to help us decide on what foam to use. Maybe you can take donations from fellow Swaylockians and sell the boards afterwards to also help with the cost.
T1G
Fuzzy,
After re-reading the passage from LT above, he makes it sound like they are chasing performance and “Greener” was an added benefit…
The other formula on their website is Able, which is also MDI …?They talk about this like its some super performance material. Has anyone checked it out yet?
LT also mentioned that their plan was to have more than one foam…from the insinuations it sounds like Ice9 is providing a solution that performs and is greener. They are respondeing to market demand. Hmmmm aa foam company that listens!!! And since the market wasnt biting,in a big enough way, they are taking another run at something that might be more favorable.
They havent stopped selling their sugar formula, but they are adding more options. and I like that.
BD,
It seems the market demand is for TDI blanks (always has been) EPS is here to stay. I think MDI and other formulations is where EPS was 10 years ago. And I agree, options are good. It will be nice when all the crappy foam is gone and we are left with a few solid companies.
Fuzzyseaslug: I thought you were dis-ing me?
It’s been a rough road for me since the shut down of Clark.
I went full production into EPS and then all of the sudden there was a bunch of new PU blank companies. I had boards fail one after the other when I went back to PU. Shrinking foam, yellowing, FCS plugs blowing out. Since the dust is starting to settle I will go ahead with my study even if the blank companies do not share their resources. I have in my racks {US Blanks; King Mac; Bennent; ICE 9 Cane} They all have my rocker. I can order Surfblanks America and have them in less than one week the same with JUST FOAM. Hopefull Stu from Ice Nice will get me a TDI blank to put in this study. The companies I mention have alway provided blanks with my rocker in less than one week. So I do not question their service. Like I said before I personally like all these people who are running these blank companies.
I will go ahead and start setting up production for this study. If there are any particular blank companies that should be added let me know and I will try and include them.
Hello,
i am new to this, and was looking at this thread and wanted to say why don't you forget about your test and let the market choose the winner over time, who ever has the best quality blank will come out on top over time no matter what. that way you don't have to waist your money and time when it won't matter until everyone chooses for themselves anyway.
Fredrick
Fuzzy,
After re-reading the passage from LT above, he makes it sound like they are chasing performance and “Greener” was an added benefit…
The other formula on their website is Able, which is also MDI …?They talk about this like its some super performance material. Has anyone checked it out yet?
LT also mentioned that their plan was to have more than one foam…from the insinuations it sounds like Ice9 is providing a solution that performs and is greener. They are respondeing to market demand. Hmmmm aa foam company that listens!!! And since the market wasnt biting,in a big enough way, they are taking another run at something that might be more favorable.
They havent stopped selling their sugar formula, but they are adding more options. and I like that.
I haven’t figured out how you guys cut a segment of a quote.someone tell me, but your last line is the one I’m addressing.
…this is exaactly the case…they aren’t nixing Cane…the TDI is a new additional option. It’s part of their growing quiver of formulas. Clark went thru many formulas too ya know.
so far as the Able foam formula…they have had some top surfers ride the stuff for over a year…the gist of it is that the ride is incredible but the durability is less than what is desirable at this point in time.
…if you notice some missing a’s on this post it’s cuz my computer is skipping them…needs a BJ (he he…)
I shaped 3 Cane HPS boards yesterday, and the more I do of these, the easier it gets…the stuff is shaping very nicely now. There were some holes in the last group that I was taken care of on, and the pours were looked at and corrected. These guys are on it…and yes they ARE listening and adjusting to our feedback. Anyone that says otherwise is full of cr-p or has their own agenda.
I didn’t get to the Walker formula that Harold went over with them, but will be doing some today…the blanks I got from Stu aren’t perfect as far as finished skin, etc. but these guys have trusted me to do stuff and I give them feedback.
The weights are getting better and better, not that they were bad to begin with. As far as the green approach…let’s keep it real guys. Ice 9 and Homeblown have worked hard at offering alternatives nd laid it on the line…but if you can’t get enough market share with your ideology to stay in business, you adjust your business model and go on from there…lest you become extinct.
MDI hsn’t failed…it is in it’s infancy in development and even this spans years. In another thread (Made Where) posted by John Mellor…Maurice (Cole) just chimed in talking about a major breakthrough of quantum edge stuff that stands to revolutionize the whole damn approach to reinforcing boards…no glassing,sanding, etc.
Check that one out.
Your right let the market decide. Why provide non bias information?
I can do my own study and keep it to myself for my own benifit. I’ll keep my crazy ideals and my resources to myself.
Swaylocks is most likely the wrong forum to try and share ideals. I’ve been cut down twice.
Thanks Fredick for your advice!
Well - there may be one newbie (2 posts total) who doesn’t want to hear your results, but I think it would be great info for the rest of us.
…hello Atomized
I have questions:
-its all TDI or a mix?
-whats the name of those; Walker or Ice9 or both?
-which s the weight in comparison to CF, Rhyno, Surfblanks?
-etc
thanks