So, how many people here use them ?
Please reply if your current board[s] feature[s] them.
... thanks !
ben
I use them
Not by choice…
All my of the shelf purchases just came that way.
Tried all the big ones except MRs
sticking to the carbons (AM, S2, CRV, Redlines) for now
Didn’t like the Soars, Fiberglass, or Surfco’s with FCS tabs either…
There’s no big oohmff payback after the turn
Currently experimenting with John Harris’s Redtip 3D
Just only started seeing futures coming on stock boards.
On those all three of mine I use the Vector 3/2 ceramics with different trailers
I have them on my thrusters, but i’ve emailed Lockbox so i hope to have soon another system.
Sincerelly, i DON’T like FCS. The only good thing is they’re really easy to install and they need no special tools.
still use the F.uckin C.rap S.ystem about half of my boards. either that or glass on. I just have so many extra and hand me down fins that it makes it too much of an expense to change. I have to say that futures are a million times better though
I use 'em… I like them but havent tried anything else but glass-ons, I think there ok, alot of times the whining about how fcs brake is because of poor installation, I havent had any probs… (keep in mind, next new fruster(wow! cool new spelling) I get (that i dont shape) I would like to try ‘Loxbox’ or ‘Futures’ Maybe…
Josh.
PS… I like single boxes for singles though (non glassons, I dont like my singles glassed on, not anoth variety.)
I use them. I like them.
In the ding repair business i recieved as many future fin boxs ripped out of boards as i did FCS. Maybe a coincedence but i never saw a great difference in strength. Also, replacing FCS plugs is quick and easy and therefore cheap. When a future box gets ripped out it often pulls chunks of foam with it and has to be ground out with a dremel and filled etc. A real pain in the ass, therefore i charged a whole lot more to repair future box’s.
This is just my experience though.
D
Howzit D_Henry, Strangely enough One shaper I used to use just phoned me to complain about the Future system. He’s been using it for about a year now and Has come to the conclusion it’s a pain in the okole system. he’s tired of the holes not being the same depth after routing them and his router is set exactally at the precise depth. He told me the main pain is the center hole because of the tail rocker. I told him that every one I’ve installed for him I had to float the boxes and I feel that messes with the strength factor. He does a lot of boards with a lot of concave and that brings up another problem for setting up the cant for the rail fins. I’ve been using FCS for over 7 years and have had great results with it. When I encounter a problem I just call my rep and ask them what’s going on and they have always been there for me with an answer or replacement of a bad plug or set of fins. Kauai is an FCS friendly Island and we have worked on doing the best instalations possible. Aloha,Kokua
We also use FCS plugs. All the other fin systems seem to fail with the same frequency as FCS but they seem to destroy the bottom of the board a lot more then a failure with the FCS system. I have noticed that if you put carbon fiber fins on the FCS system you get the same damage as in other systems. I recommend to all my customers that you use regular fins in the system. This way if you hit something hard or ride it up on the beach you usually break a fin not damage a pull. A fin is cheaper to replace than the cost of repairing the board and reinstalling a plug.
Howzit TS, What kind of feedback have you gotten on the f-series fins? Just yesterday a friend was telling me that they have a tendecy to break off at the tabs a little to easy. He said the foam goes down into the tabs and that's the problem plus he said that if you tighten the set screw to tight it goes through the glass on the tabs and into the foam inside the tab. Going to call my Rep on Monday and get the info on this. I'm about to get out my drill and check it out.I have gotten nothing but great feedback on them as far as performance is concerned. Aloha,Kokua
I use FCS fins for my round-nose fish, and swallowtail. They’re pretty good, but I can’t say the longboard fins are that great.
Kokua,
I have heard about the screw biting into the fin but to be honest we don't sell/use the f-series fins. I am not sure about how easy they break off. Our team riders are all amateurs so doubt that they really could tell the difference with the f-series fins and at 60 bucks a pop we rather they ride the cheap ones so they don't mind riding them into the beach.
Troy
Howzit TS, If you have an account with FCS the f-series is only $32.00 a set with plugs from the co. for manufacturers. I pay a little more than $24.00 a set for the regular fins so it's only about $7.00 extra for the F-series. I'm a little sceptical about the rumor since I've loaned out the demo sets they gave me and those were supposed to be semi rejects, but that was due to a cosmetic flaw. But those have stood up really well and one of the riders is really hard on his equiptment and there was no problems while he used them. I hope you and Austin have an account with FCS so you can get the good prices and promo stuff and you can also buy anything they sell( bags,leashes,etc,etc) at wholesale cost. Aloha,Kokua
I’ve been getting FCS in my boards now for about 5 or 6 years. Never really had a problem with them so I’ve had no reason to switch. I even got a set in a quad fish that I use larger 6.5 glass fins in with no problems. Granted the glasser knew enough to put a glass patch over the plugs to re-enforce them for the larger fins added stress. Two summers ago I fell on my board, fins up, and broke off two carbon fins in my back. Luckily, they both snapped at the plugs and I had some minor damage to one FCS plug that had to be repaired and only some minor scratches and bruises on my back. I was glad they broke at the tabs like they did, otherwise I would have had some serious lacerations to my back and probably more serious board damage.
I’ve got a nice collection of fins now so it’s kinda hard to jump over to another product and have to re-invest in fins. The only reason I would go with something different at this point is if I started getting epoxy boards.
Kokua, have you noticed an increase in toe angle on those F series fins? I got a set of FG5’s and they seem to have a fair bit more toe in on them. The few times I rode them in mushy Florida waves it seemed to add noticable drag. They worked good once you got them going down the line but they seemed to lag a bit. This probably isn’t as much an issue in Hawaii, but I had high hopes for them and they didn’t really live up to the hype for me. Granted they are light at shit though.
They are hyping the hell out of the H2’s also but I haven’t seen any out in the water yet. Price is a bit steep for those of us who have to pay retail.
Every fin system has its positives and negatives! Some more than others granted. Right now it would seem to me that there will inevitably be 2 fin systems standing when all is said and done. I am in Australia and the only Futures you see over here in significant numbers are going into containers and heading over to the States. (Insert Anti Foreign Surfboard Argument Here!) Call me a turkey but isn’t the real advantage of Futures in America the fact that its American? Patriotism is playing a major part in this one it seems from over here.
Why else would you put up with boards (short, performance not fat and long) breaking on a regular basis right down the middle of the front and the back fins? That’s why they are both making vector fins to Fit FCS, (as it goes I have heard that they have had more success keeping the fins attached in FCS then in the Futures box.) Also why all the work on the Carbon rods to attach the boxes together? Is that to fix the snapping?
I ride channels, and can’t use them there or on my concaved Twin fin. Installation is much harder and after you spend the extra time installing would end up being more expensive anyway. So WHY? I know you’ll say it the base flex thing right… The composite (plastic) fins do flex, and aren’t the best but if you care about performance make some fibreglass fins with FCS tabs the same as you would normally and if you can tell the difference to Fixed you’re obviously a better surfer than Parko because he can’t! Either can his shaper who also rips! Occy uses a local fin makers fin in FCS plugs and either can he, I could go on but why bother?
Now I am not one to shy away from a debate so lets have one!
Kokua,
I am glad i’m not the only one. I was beginning to feel like i was crazy because so many people i know have been switching to futures and saying they are stronger but none of them had every ripped their plugs out anyway. The fact is that i have seen just as many future boxs torn out as FCS and they they go they usually take half the board with them. I had this one board that came to me where the future box had actually been pushed into the board and had formed a crack through the enire thickness of the board, including the glass, that ran from the box, inline with the angle of the box about 14 inches up the board. Even if they are stronger before a repair (which IMO they aren’t) the box and the board is going to be significantly weaker after a repair. Like i said a royal pain in the ass to install and repair.
Quote:
“…make some fibreglass fins with FCS tabs the same as you would normally…”
Okay , I’ve changed what I originally wrote, as I noticed we now have ‘F.C.S. rep’ on this site, and I noticed talks about ‘patent’ and ‘legal action’ in other fin threads…
So, now , I guess my new question is to you, ‘F.C.S. rep’…
Where do people who just want to make their own FCS tabbed fibreglass and other material core fins stand , if they are only using them for personal use and not selling them ?
IS F.C.S.'s ‘patent’ on the tabs ? Or on fin templates too ? or what else ?
Because, if the templates being made by people are DIFFERENT to what is commercially available, and the tabs are still the same , in theory is that a ‘sueable’ [?word?] situation ? [ And, even IF the person is only experimenting for themselves, or with the purpose of providing feedback for a forum like ‘Swaylocks’ ? ]
Thanks mate for any clarification on this. I'd be interested to know...
cheers !
ben
Howzit Lawless, After reading your question about the toe angle I looked at a set of F-G3's and a set of G-3000's which are the same template. Couldn't find any difference in the toe cant, they are both the same. The tabs on the f-series are a bit deeper and that's the only difference I could find. Aloha,Kokua
Cool, I was curious if any one else had noticed this in the FG series. Seems to make them not work so well in smaller surf.
Here’s a pic to illustrate what I’m talking about:
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Drew a line between the shapers marks for the fin angle
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Standard molded FCS fin (G5 that got hacked up in an experiment), notice how it follows the line quite closely at the leading and trailing edge…
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FG5 fin, notice how the leading edge is right on the mark but the trailing edge veers out towards the rail. I think a little of this is due to the camber in the fin but it seems that it should still follow the line at the leading edge and trailing edge. This is what makes me say that they have more toe-in as a whole, even taking into account the camber.
I’d say the inside foil effectively increases the apparent toe-in a bit.
I’d be interested in how your cut fin experiment worked out. Jeff Ho and some other guys were cutting slots like that in their singles. Haven’t seen them used on thrusters though. Comments please?
I agree with John’s opinion on the toe-in on the FG series. The inside foil on the side fins means that the inside edge (particularly at the base) isn’t flat like the G series… hence the inside foil will not follow a line drawn using a straight ruler or unfoiled inside edge of the G series fin.
To really measure the toe in, you probably need to measure the fin base for the following measurements:
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Leading edge: Length from tip (at the base) to the stringer
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Trailing edge: Length from tip (at the base) to the stringer
This will give you an indication of the toe-in (and assuming that the fins are of equal or similar length at the base). As the 2 FCS fin plugs for each fin are fitted in line, I can only think that to change the toe-in on an FCS fin the tabs would need to be at a different angle to the fin. To check this, you’d need to eye the tabs and notice an angle in the tabs as compared to the line of the fin. This would be fairly easy to eyeball with a ruler lined up against the tabs of the uninstalled fin and seeing how it lines up with the leading and trailing edges of the fin.
I havn’t personally used the FG series, so I’m just talking from a general opinion on fin toe-in. My assumption would be though that due to the foil on the side fins in the FG series, you would need a slightly different toe-in than the standard single foiled side fins.
Has anybody had any experience around this? If fitting FG series or H2 series fins, are you best to alter the toe-in (and hence require you FCS plugs to be specifically fitted for that fin type)?