I'm calling BS on the HD foam insert for fin boxes

I’ve found cutting HD foam inserts for Fin boxes to be difficult and I have shied away from that method. It occurred to me recently when installing FCS fusions on a planned twin Fin that I could just line the box with some 1 ounce cloth and overlap it beyond the box such that it would bond with the bottom lamination in the next step.

I know some have done used cloth in the routed out boxes but the key is to lap it outside and beyond the box so that it. Ones with the bottom lam. I’m prepared to say right here and now that a few strips of 1 ounce lapped this way is stronger than a HD insert.

Of course I have no easy way to prove this, but being an intuitive engineer, I think this is a pretty good guess. Anyone have any thoughts to the contrary?


My thoughts are always contrary - or so my wife tells me!
oh yeah, and I do my fin plugs the same as you

Great idea, a suspension mount.

also take a nail head and run it along the bottom of your cuts. gives resin a place to grip into the board and creates an internal flange that helps with those boxes rolling.

@Tate
Makes sense.
If practical and doable, seems like anchored to both deck and bottom would give additional strength.
HD insert from base of plug to deck?

AG is right on the simple resin flange tip. And yes Greg, doing the cloth as you do makes it an an integral part of each other thereby distributing the load better from side pressure to the fins.
I’ve always found it interesting that FCS states that the X2 round FCS plugs are the strongest connection they offer? The reason I state that, is becuz they are basing it on the skin to skin connection that we pioneered in installing fin boxes in sailboards.

Side wall fin box blow out was common while we were learning to land big airs. The commonly used Fins Unltd. fin channels were a 2 part mold with the side wall welded to a bottom plate. It was not sufficient for the load they would experience which resulted in failure of the side wall structure. Our road led to “woodies” both lateral and perpendicular, flanges, double stringers, drilling & attaching nuts & bolts at front/rear corners of the box, capping the boxes with fiberglass plates to the bottom of the board… among other things. It wasn’t until I started installing footstrap plugs into the deck deep enough that the fin boxes routed into those delrin plugs we made, that actually eliminated box blow outs on all the sailboards I was sending to the Gorge, Maui, and the Bay area…

The final solution happened with the advent of a one part mold fin box with a post manufactured by Chinook.

But I strayed from my original digression about FCS claiming the X2 plugs are the strongest connection they offer. The answer is Yes & NO! In theory, they are correct, but what they leave out is the shortcomings of that approach. First, the “skin to skin” connection they developed with their tooling creating an “H Pattern” to the deck is minimal using a ring of reinforced resin connecting to the deck laminates. To add to that, you have poor design in the X2 plug from the get go. In this, I mean that the rectangular slots that receive the fin tabs have so little material between the receptacle to the outside wall of the plug itself. Load bearing of the receptacle - the rectangular receiving end of the two tab fins, is experienced greatest at… the corners of receptacle, which makes them prone to cracking. Apparently FCS felt the skin to skin H Pattern and the reinforced ring of resin to install the plugs was sufficient enough to reinforce the weakest point of the X2 plugs.

For the same reason a round waterbed doesn’t need a frame but a rectangular one does, what you end up with is a plug that cracks at the corner of the receiving part of the plug and an H Pattern that will punch into the deck laminates when sufficient load bearing occurs. Yes, it may take a lot for these failures to happen, but you then have a repair that may have been better avoided by using the easier to install, more sound approach as found with FCS Fusion.

The reason I feel Fusion was a better approach is because the material surrounding the rectangular receptacles is far greater than found in the circular X2 plug. The “footprint” is structurally capable of handling greater load distribution due to its greater base and outline. It is lightweight and very easy to install one. There is no punching into the deck or cracking at vulnerable corners. Both FCS Fusion and Futures boxes are type of flanges offering increased lateral resistance generated from load bearing on the face of fins.

Finally, when the Fusion system first came out, it was stated they were originally designed for use with EPS cores. I installed a lot of regular 10" fin and deck boxes into EPS sailboards as well as PUPE’s, and it was immediately apparent to me, that if they worked well in EPS cores, they would work even better in PUPE’s. That prompted me to drop use of X2’s 7 or 8 years ago, and since then my boards have been available with either Futures or FCS Fusion as a standard offering.










Good comments DS. I used to do the suspension method for my boxes. I’d heat up a knife with a flame and cut a slit in the foam then drop a tongue depressor in and then route it out for the box. Super strong. But the glass method we are talking about here is very easy and strong.

thats very clever method Greg! I normally put some 4 oz or other offset under the plugs but that takes it a bit further… well done!
Fusions are the best under glass box imho anyways:)

So two 1" wide 1 oz cloth lining the sides of the hole? Then pull the stuff sticking out the top onto the surface? Why not just ‘bathtub’ the cloth with a couple of relief cuts? Seems like you’d get the best of all worlds, glass in the bottom of the hole and glass on the sides connecting with the lam. BTW, with 1 oz cloth did you need to make the hole any bigger?

Gunkie, I used the strips so as not to bunch up the cloth and make a sanding problem across the bottom of the board. I made them just long enough to allow them to stick well to the flat part. Cut them too short and they will not stick and will stick up defeating the purpose. I used 1 oz and didnt have any trouble with the fit. I have some 2 oz cloth and will try that next time. I would think the heaver the glass the better, provided you can fit the box in and make a tidy overlay to bond with the bottom lam.

I think if you cut a big square and force the box down on it you would end up with a crumpled mess on top. I could be wrong, which has never happened before. haha (often wrong but never in doubt?)

I use the relief cut / crumpled mess method, it all sands off pretty easy, and i just try to make sure i get some overlap with the surface cloth too.

interesting…i have never had any issues with those fin boxes using no special treatment even on twin fins

I’ve been using Fusions for a few years…all in PU/PE boards. No special treatment. I have yet to have a box get ripped out. One board came back to me for a repair that had snapped off a fiberglass FCS fin and left a 14" x 2" pressure ding across the bottom after a collision with a kook on a log. The only damage in relation to the Fusion box was a small 1" long minor stress crack along one edge of the box. I was very impressed by that one and amazed the box survived given the rest of the damage to the board and the broken fin.

Nice and thanks for the explanation.

I can second Mako & Grasshopper on that… had a fish I built and the guy told me he snapped of a True Ames fiberglass keel fin when i got pounded in a shorebreak. All he had to do was get the tabs out and put a new fin in. This was the intent of the manufacturers anyway, and replacing a fin is a helluva lot better than replace a fin box or one of those X2 plugs… esp. if you are a trip somewhere! You can use milled fiber or cabosil installing them, but I think it’s overkill, just MHO.
Greg, wasn’t it Fusion I built into your SUP/Windsurfer??? Howz she doing btw?

DS, yes you put Fusions in and it is rock solid. I still ride the board. Every once in a while I think about selling it, but it really works well. Very surfable, very SUP-able. A little heavy but that is my fault for making you use X-glass (resin sponge).
all the best

An epoxy paste make with milled fiber fiber, cab o sil, and microsphere (denser ones) is enough strong even with x2 plugs. In eps i find that make a 10 mm deep filet under glass all arround hole with this past is a good way to go with x2. I use Knit glass on all my boards for long time, industrial grade 12 oz on sup and lb and short too when strong lam needed (same Weight than standard shop pe/pu), knitted glass need far less resin than plain wave to be lam effectively.

Balsa Bahne Box Cradle.
Bonds with both glass skins, deck and bottom.
Walls 0.5" thick.
Needs trimming, gluing and shaping.
For 1.8 pcf XPS stringerless.


The depth of that cradle seems off. In most of my boards the bottom of the fin box is close to the deck, maybe less than 1/2 inch. I placed 4" or 5" long balsa strips perpendicular to the box near the front and back to stabilize the box, then route through it when I insert the box.
For XPS I don’t bother, I just add a cut along the bottom inside of the routed hole, and poke a bunch of holes along the walls. It creates a resin flange. I’ve been cutting left over glass into tiny slivers and I make a slurry to coat the inside of the hole. I figure the glass fibers will bond stronger than other fillers. For EPS, I sometimes add a cap of glass over the box.
Here’s a shot of the deck on a fish I built showing the wood braces. The wood is connected to the top and bottom lam.
I don’t think the loading on a center fin is as high as the side fins. I’ve had more problems with side fins in EPS and XPS foam. I always add the bevel cut on the bottom of the hole and punch some holes along the wall. The perpendicular braces make the side fins stronger.


The extra cradle depth is sanded/hand-planed down on the deck. The balsa walls (0.5 x 3 x 12) were in a drawer for decades. Bought the block of 1 x 2 x 12 balsa at Hobby Lobby to use with them to create a perfect 1" deep x 1" wide slot for the FU box. (Should have waited until I placed an order at National Balsa – much cheaper.)
Cradle length is trimmed to box length. Wall corners rounded.
All I need is a jigsaw and festool foam blade – tools I already have in the closet.
No need for a router and jig.
Cradle won’t need any real reinforcement inside.