…And a special thanks to those who contributed aid to the victims of the 09-11-01 tragedy.Herb
…And a special thanks to those who contributed aid to the victims > of the 09-11-01 tragedy.Herb Damn right, Herb. Amen…
I’m kinda sorry this showed up on Swaylock’s, because I can’t resist stating my opinion. For true Americans, the anniversary of this despicable act can’t be a time for venting our sorrow, but for renewing our resolve. There is a giant, well funded force of Muslims situated contiguously through the tropics, bent on the destruction of the West, its people and its values. Until 9/11/02 western nations’ populations responded by limiting their leaders to a response in the face of this threat. Their mission? Keep letting all the bad people into Western countries, but keep them from doing bad things. The 9/11 attack left the supporters of these policies asking “How could our leaders fail so badly?” Our leaders didn’t fail. The task we gave them can’t be accomplished. No government, no President, no Prime Minister can keep bad people from doing bad things. Period! In the past Western nations have recognized the impossibility of such a response. Let this horrible anniversary serve to remind us that we have a mission to accomplish. A mission to eliminate the people, the nations, and the support networks which threaten our freedoms, our lives, and the lives of our families. Hit them where they live. Kill the people bent on our destruction.
I’m kinda sorry this showed up on Swaylock’s, because I can’t resist > stating my opinion.>>> For true Americans, the anniversary of this despicable act can’t be a time > for venting our sorrow, but for renewing our resolve. There is a giant, > well funded force of Muslims situated contiguously through the tropics, > bent on the destruction of the West, its people and its values. Until > 9/11/02 western nations’ populations responded by limiting their leaders > to a response in the face of this threat. Their mission? Keep letting all > the bad people into Western countries, but keep them from doing bad > things.>>> The 9/11 attack left the supporters of these policies asking “How > could our leaders fail so badly?” Our leaders didn’t fail. The task > we gave them can’t be accomplished. No government, no President, no Prime > Minister can keep bad people from doing bad things. Period!>>> In the past Western nations have recognized the impossibility of such a > response. Let this horrible anniversary serve to remind us that we have a > mission to accomplish. A mission to eliminate the people, the nations, and > the support networks which threaten our freedoms, our lives, and the lives > of our families. Hit them where they live.>>> Kill the people bent on our destruction. I think it is wrong to prevent terrorist attacks by trying to kill all ennemies. The war in afghanistan only leads towards new terrorist activities. Every child in the kindergarden learns that you should solve conflicts with words and not weapons!
I think it is wrong to prevent terrorist attacks by trying to kill all > ennemies. The war in afghanistan only leads towards new terrorist > activities. Every child in the kindergarden learns that you should solve > conflicts with words and not weapons! “Enemies”? The Soviet Union was a U.S. “enemy”. Imperial Japan was a U.S. “enemy”. These “enemies” were different. Do you know how their threats differed? Both enemies fell by different means. “Should”? The U.S. treated both enemies as nicely as self preservation would allow. BUT WE SURVIVED BOTH THREATS. The U.S. prevailed. Both “enemies” are gone with the least possible loss of American lives and freedoms. Germany was an “enemy” of Western Europe. Hitler showed his affection by, like Japan and radical Muslims, killing his neighbors. Western Europe responded like you endorse, by extending an olive branch. How did that work out for them? Like the 3,000 people who died in Washington, New York and Pennsylvania, if they had survived to testify, they might say “not so well”. As long as responsible leaders are in charge of countries where people like you live, you will be safe to spout drivle which, if followed, would spell the end of their civilizations. ‘Scuse me, but this is a “duh”. You and your family can die by yourselves.
I’m with Noodle here. Resolve, action, and strength will say more to the groups of terrorists around the world than talk. They don’t talk - their objective is not peaceful coexistence - it is to kill those that they see as the infidels and enemies - not try to get along or reform - to kill. This is clear from their actions. They also know that Americans are scared of death and will do just about anything to avoid putting loved ones in danger of death. The terrorists are not afraid to die for their cause, so they take advantage of our fears and acheive the goal of striking terror in us by killing - even if that means they kill themselves in the process (imagine if 4 americans tried to hijack a plane full of Taliban … I cannot think that the americans would succeed - there’d likely be a great deal of people on the plane who would gladly martyr themselves to thwart the hijackers). Most americans are led by emotions and the desire to not jepordize our comforts and good times, so we don’t generally want to risk rocking the boat - understandable - but if we are dealing with people who’s objective is to kill us - killing them is the way to stop them. Talk is cheap - witness Mr. Clinton claiming that he’d go to Israel and pickup a gun - yea… the same guy who could not come clean about what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is. Sorry for using up the bandwidth Mike - back to the reason I lurk here… this is a surfboard design forum… and as soon as I get some film devloped I hope to post the fruits of my summer vacation labors… a recycled big twin fin and a mini-mal longboard. Best, Eric J>>> I think it is wrong to prevent terrorist attacks by trying to kill all > ennemies. The war in afghanistan only leads towards new terrorist > activities. Every child in the kindergarden learns that you should solve > conflicts with words and not weapons!
“Enemies”?>>> The Soviet Union was a U.S. “enemy”. Imperial Japan was a U.S. > “enemy”. These “enemies” were different. Do you know > how their threats differed? Both enemies fell by different means.>>> “Should”? The U.S. treated both enemies as nicely as self > preservation would allow. BUT WE SURVIVED BOTH THREATS. The U.S. > prevailed. Both “enemies” are gone with the least possible loss > of American lives and freedoms.>>> Germany was an “enemy” of Western Europe. Hitler showed his > affection by, like Japan and radical Muslims, killing his neighbors. > Western Europe responded like you endorse, by extending an olive branch. > How did that work out for them? Like the 3,000 people who died in > Washington, New York and Pennsylvania, if they had survived to testify, > they might say “not so well”.>>> As long as responsible leaders are in charge of countries where people > like you live, you will be safe to spout drivle which, if followed, would > spell the end of their civilizations. ‘Scuse me, but this is a > “duh”. You and your family can die by yourselves. Not that I am any sort of expert on anything, but I would like to point out a few things here, if I may. Russia was an enemy because of its ideology - communism turned sour under Stalin (not that Communism can work). The aggressor manipulated the intelligence of the masses, he controlled every aspect of their lives from childhood to death ; the people were endoctrinated with his beliefs and knew nothing different. Under this influence, Russians became the aggressor. A similar state existed with Hitler who fed on the disappointment and perhaps hostility of the German people who had lost WW I, their land, respect and jobs. He fed them a doctrine of the promise of a better world for them if they believed and followed him. They became the aggressor in this situation. Russia was defeated, more or less, by Ronald Reagan and his arms race - he broke Russia financially and the rest fell behind that. They were defeated by a “cold war”. Hitler was defeated by an all out effort from allied countries, most notably the U.S. Terrorists ? There really is not one place or area to find them all in or combat them. They are like a cancer in the body. Their problem is also radical belief systems in which all opposed must die. There is no reasoning with these fanatics. It is also a religious issue. I do not advocate letting them run wild. They have to be prevented from harming our interests, but how to accomplish that ? Certainly, giving the people access to new ideas and educating them will be necessary - unfortunately, the true terrorists could not care less about anything other than their beliefs and these are the people that have to be eliminated, the cancerous cells in the body of the population of other countries. The rest can be re-educated, they just don’t know any differently from what they are told. To sum up, I simply wanted to say that Russia was defeated in a manner completely different from Hitler’s Germany. In all cases, however, ideas were an underlying cause - an idea taken to the extreme by radicals. At any rate, advocating a war against the peoples of the middle eastern countries is not a new idea - crusaders tried it many times beginning in 1096 AD. Why ? Because the ruler of constantinople was afraid the Muslim’s would attack his city. What happened ? The Europeans lost all of the Crusades, were beaten out of the middle East, and the Muslims decided to take Constantinople. They have never been defeated, their religion never effaced, the people never removed from their lands. With these people, there has to be more than just violence to “win”.
I’m with Noodle here. Resolve, action, and strength will say more to the > groups of terrorists around the world than talk. They don’t talk - their > objective is not peaceful coexistence - it is to kill those that they see > as the infidels and enemies - not try to get along or reform - to kill. > This is clear from their actions. They also know that Americans are scared > of death and will do just about anything to avoid putting loved ones in > danger of death. The terrorists are not afraid to die for their cause, so > they take advantage of our fears and acheive the goal of striking terror > in us by killing - even if that means they kill themselves in the process > (imagine if 4 americans tried to hijack a plane full of Taliban … I > cannot think that the americans would succeed - there’d likely be a great > deal of people on the plane who would gladly martyr themselves to thwart > the hijackers). Most americans are led by emotions and the desire to not > jepordize our comforts and good times, so we don’t generally want to risk > rocking the boat - understandable - but if we are dealing with people > who’s objective is to kill us - killing them is the way to stop them. Talk > is cheap - witness Mr. Clinton claiming that he’d go to Israel and pickup > a gun - yea… the same guy who could not come clean about what the > meaning of the word ‘is’ is.>>> Sorry for using up the bandwidth Mike - back to the reason I lurk here… > this is a surfboard design forum… and as soon as I get some film > devloped I hope to post the fruits of my summer vacation labors… a > recycled big twin fin and a mini-mal longboard.>>> Best,>>> Eric J I just have to voice my opinion on this matter. To know people who were killed in the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and even on the planes that they were attacked with, I can’t feel remorse for the action that has been and will be taken in the near future to protect all institutions of freedom in this world. Some say that two wrongs do not make a right. Is this what is going on here? In my opinion: ABSOLUTELY NOT. By these efforts we are trying to protect the greatest institution and idea left in this world today: freedom…the very thing that allows us to be who we are today. We have become the voice of reason, and only in some cases, when both sides want to resolve conflicts peacefully can true peace be attained. However, in this case it is just not possible right now. The people who carried out the attacks on 911 thought nothing of peace, but rather of violence in an attempt to wipe out what made us different and great. I know it is easy to say that we can’t fight, that we can try to resolve matters like this peacefully; however, then you have to consider the thousands of innocent live that were lost because these people believed in a dream. That dream is freedom, and I believe we need to take every measure necessary to protect that dream.
Dood! How hard can this be to answer? It ain’t rocket science. It takes you NOT being an expert. Hitler…killed other people. Hirohito… killed other people. The Soviets… didn’t… kill other people. The doods who KOP (known as bad guys) weren’t stopped until somebody… killed them. That’s right bob. The Soviets may have been aggressors, but they didn’t… kill other people. Nobody was forced to kill them. Have you noticed a pattern here. The difference between the correct response to “aggressors” requires that we determine whether or not they… kill other people. If they want to, and can kill you, you have to kill them first. If they don’t want to kill you then you don’t have to kill them. ‘Kay?
…My intention in starting this thread was to congratulate the unsung heros of our time…As for this thread being a waste of bandwidth? …Without freedom,this wouldn’t exist,nor would surfing or boardbuilding.LOTS of people sacrificed there lives so we could live our dreams. …I choose to execise my fredoms by congratulating those who have gone before us,and didn’t make it home to there loved ones.Herb
Thanks for your comments, Nick. It’s amazing to me. The U.S. has troops around the world killing Al Qaeda and being killed. Yet only a year after having 3,000 people brutally murdered, some Americans have lost their stomach for the fight, are equating deaths on the agressor side with deaths on the victims’ side, are arguing that “if the agressors haven’t exercised their capability to kill 10,000,000 of us then we have no right to prevent the attack”. This business of killing my countrymen, just because they are Americans… makes me angry. It should make any American angry.
Noodle, I got to go with you on this one. I was watching all the memorials & such today & all I can feel is pissed off! This country may not be perfect but I can’t think of a better place to be. I would prefer peace & harmony, but if the other guys’ don’t. You just got to kick some ass. If the want to kill me or my family just for not beliving like they do F–k em!!
Noodle your the man. Let’s Roll.>>> Noodle, I got to go with you on this one. I was watching all the > memorials & such today & all I can feel is pissed off! This > country may not be perfect but I can’t think of a better place to be. I > would prefer peace & harmony, but if the other guys’ don’t. You just > got to kick some ass. If the want to kill me or my family just for not > beliving like they do F–k em!!
Noodle your the man. Let’s Roll. Amen. Lawless murderers should always have the opportunity to experience the full weight of justice. Yeah… let`s roll. Dale
Amen. Lawless murderers should always have the opportunity to experience > the full weight of justice. Yeah… let`s roll.>>> Dale You should not forget that the United States had a deal with the taliban in afghanistan and delivered weapons to them. Nowadays, everybody likes to forget it, but the U.S. abused the taliban and mudschaheddin to fight the russian communism. Now it is not so easy to get rid of them. It´s no wonder that an abused group tries to pursuit its own aims when it begins to " see clear"
It’s amazing to me. The U.S. has troops around the world killing Al Qaeda > and being killed. Yet only a year after having 3,000 people brutally > murdered, some Americans have lost their stomach for the fight, are > equating deaths on the agressor side with deaths on the victims’ side, are > arguing that “if the agressors haven’t exercised their capability to > kill 10,000,000 of us then we have no right to prevent the attack”. The civilian death toll in Afganistan is estimated to 1000-3000. That would be about an eye for an eye. How many Al Qaeda members are dead? Is it really worth it? Preventing an attack and attacking other nations, killing civilians in the process is in my opinion very different. The main objective of the terrorist was to piss off people. Looks like they did their job well. The murderers are all dead. They would have to be, it was a suicide mission. Preventing terrorist attacks by brute force attacks on soverign nations is not likely to stop the small cells of terrorists spread out thoughout the world. It’s even harder the getting rid of guarilla throops. Wars are propably the best recruitment campaign for any terrorist organisation.>>> This business of killing my countrymen, just because they are Americans… > makes me angry. It should make any American angry. Killing anyone for any reason should make you angry. I’m still amazed that people think war solves any problems and bring peace. My deepest condolances to those who have lost their loved ones. Peace, Håvard
If they want to, and can kill you, you have to kill them first. No, you have to prevent them from killing you. This presents you with a problem. You have given one solution for the problem. Try yo find others. Please! Peace, Håvard
if they wanted to piss us off, they could have interrupted the transmission of the superbowl - sufficient, believe me. this tribe wanted to express their hatred, in an act that i could only describe as reaching in for our collective heart, extracting it, and stomping on it. that’s what 911 felt like to me. the tools they used, and the targets that were attacked are symbols of the vision, dedication and sacrifice of those that have gone before us. things that this tribe of perpetrators could never hope to accomplish. if the price of peace for us and our decendants is sleeping with one eye open , i think it’s in our nature to take a pass, and do whatever is necessary now… no matter the difficulty of taking on terrorists as opposed to declared, uniformed armies. everything parallels to nature, if your organism is under attack, and your immune system doesn’t kick in, you lose.fast there have been all types of wars, and i think some of them definitely had ‘clensing’ effects that heralded periods of peace, and even forgiveness and new alliances. germany and japan must ring a bell. i will settle for just a ‘cleansing’ on this one. there’s a time for everything - and this is our time to express the same old solid values that have always defined us. i hope we haven’t forgotten.
You should not forget that the United States had a deal with the taliban > in afghanistan and delivered weapons to them. Nowadays, everybody likes to > forget it, but the U.S. abused the taliban and mudschaheddin to fight the > russian communism. Now it is not so easy to get rid of them. It´s no > wonder that an abused group tries to pursuit its own aims when it begins > to " see clear" Thankfully, we still have the right to defend ourselves, sorry if you don
t approve of that... Regardless, American foreign policy is not responsible for the creation of the Koran or its interpretation and implementation by Islamic extremists. Read Herbs last post again carefully… my guess is that you`re not emailing from Kabul, or protesting in the streets of Baghdad. Dale
I just wanted to say one more thing about this. I live in Washington D.C. (yes…and I surf). I go to school in Downtown Washington about a block and a half from the Capitol building. I heard the explosion at the Pentagon, saw the smoke, and witnessed the fighter jets patrolling the area right overhead. Now, as an American, it makes me feel damn proud that we would have people selfless enough to sacrafice their own lives in order to save others, like the people on flight 93 and now our people in the service off in a foreign land. I for one feel that it would be a horrible thing to let the lives of these selfless people to be wasted in vain. Let us not forget, let us forge on as they would have wanted us to, let us stand up for all American citizens and all the freedom loving countries of the world. Let us never forget what these people have done for me, for you, and for your families…