i am very interested in learning more about boards made by George Greenough and similar builders. i like their ideas about surfboards. something different. are there any books or good websites which go into depth about their designs?

…any thoughts on a stubbie?? would the bottom hull edge work on any size board? fin setup? would it work w/o an s deck?

Check out archives…enter Greenough or flex or surfmat or hull and read. Check out Wilderness Surfboards. Bob Duncan builds stubbies with a “modern” foil or deck and a refined edge bottom. I’m sure he would stick a full edge bottom on one if you asked. George built some tri-fin versions I’ve seen photos of and Bob Duncan uses a 2+1 set up on the ones I’ve seen. Bob also builds them at various lengths. Bob uses the Greenough edge tail where the edge breaks off the corners of the tailblock. I’ve never ridden one of Bob’s edges but I know that mine RIPS. I’m totally sold on the concept. For a short (less than 7 foot), high performance single fin, there is no other way to go.

Those are strong words. Whats the story with your board? Something you dreamed up? If theyre so happening why aren`t more people on them?

“What’s the story with your board?” Check Resource 555 in the 6-7 foot category “Did you dream it up?” Nope, talked to a few knowledgable folks, looked at a couple of photographs and merged a short Liddle/Gross hull with a Greenough edge bottom. “If they’re so happening, why aren’t more people riding them?” I don’t know…its their loss. There is only one shop that builds them on a regular basis that I know of; Wilderness although Paul Gross has made a few. Anyone with a basic understanding of displacement hull surfboard mechanics could make one like mine. There is a little more happening under the Wilderness versions. Best check with them. Unfortunately, most people think of a single fin as “retro” and a 7 foot plus Tudor as high performance. So they will stick with the standard 6’2"X 18" squash thruster. Too bad. They don’t know what they are missing. Thruster performance with single fin smoothness. Like Rory Russell used to say, “It’s got that Country Club finish…”

how wide is the tail tip? it looks like it should be pretty wide. keep it thin?

10-inches rings a bell, I’ll have to check. Mine ended up being a little thicker than I planned but it works fine. You could narrow up the tail a little if you added length. A narrower tail on my 6’4" would put too much curve in the outline and take away drive. At this length and having the inner hull to roll around on, looseness is not a problem.

After having ridden a Wilderness edge recently in good waves, I’m still trying to figure out what it is exactly that makes mine ride so nice. Certainly the overall length, width and volume play a role but the edge and rail treatment seem to be factors in allowing the perfect rail depth to be in the face while trimming. Just enough to maintain control while hanging high but doesn’t penetrate too deep. I think that the step may also act as a slot to direct water flow straight back along the underside rail giving extra down the line speed.

go to the spencer kellogg a shout on this board-he has worked closely with Paul Gross, and can either build you one or put you in touch with PG.both PG and Liddle have been tinkering with and refining the displacement hulled stubbie for over 30 years, non-stop so they would be the logical two to try and hook up with.(PG worked with Greenough for years fishing, filming and building his displacement hull and edge bottomed boards…)

Look for a video called “The innermost limits of pure fun” - footage of Greenough & Mctavish at Lennox head Australia late 60’s Boards featured include Greenoughs mats and spoon kneelos!

I went to Google and typed in “George Greenough designs”: Original home of George Greenough Designs Wilderness Surfboards founded in Santa Barbara, in 1966, by George Greenough and Michael Cundith, simultaneously started in Angourie, Australia, was at the forefront of the shortboard revolution creating the most innovative single-fin concept-the Wilderness Stubbie. Joining Wilderness in the late 1960’s was Richie West, Dan Hazard, and present day owner and designer shaper, Bob Duncan. Wilderness has operated at its present location at 317 South Alisos St. in Santa Barbara since 1970. After trips to Hawaii in the 1970’s, and constant trips to Mainland Mexico and Baja, longer, faster board designs evolved, improving upon the basic Greenough designs in board and fin, flex and foils integrating the completely original Greenough bottoms. Our custom fin design, flex and foil is now produced by True Ames evolving into the fin for the new century-the paddle fin. A Constant Evolution since the '60’s of Greenough foil and flex technology. Custom glasswork is performed by Bob Haakinson also located in Santa Barbara California. We continue to improve on our mid-range and longboard shapes, California’s original short board-The Greenough/Wilderness Stubbie, still available in single and three fins, and elusive custom kneeboards. Custom orders and stock boards available at the Beach House in Santa Barbara, the A-Frame Shop located at 3785 Santa Claus Lane in Carpinteria at 805-684-8803, ask for Sam or Rob, or by calling Wilderness Surfboards directly at 805-962-9518 or emailing us.

Here’s more about George… “The out there character of George Greenough, is living proof that the true sprit of surfing still exists, though not at the core but at the fringe. Originating from California, Greenough now resides at the back of Broken Head beach in NSW Australia. As a true genius George’s mind, eccentric life style and living choice is too out there for many people to understand. Though to look at the contribution he has made to surfing and life, it’s the unique character of George Greenough, that makes him a truly inspiring individual. The evolution of the surfboard has been greatly influenced by the eccentric mind of Greenough. While young Americans where enjoying post 2nd world war freedom, in the-yet-unspoiled glassy lined up’s and empty point breaks of the Californian coast. The style of the time was the long board glide of the gannet sea bird. Greenough was found studying the yellow fin tuna at the local fishery or while fishing alone from his home made boat “the coup”. Greeough says " design comes from nature, the fins in those days where crude lumps, the water flow and aquatic agility of the yellow fin tuna could change direction at high speed. I wanted to surf as freely as the tuna, so I could get as close to the source as possible”. The mind of Greenough was seeing waves ridden, not in graceful trim, but in a series of high speed full rail carves, in and out the tube. Surfing was about to be set free. By kneeling on the (self-invented) board “the spoon” George could compact, which meant easier access into and longer, deeper barrels. Next came (with Nat Young and Bob Mctavish) the experimenting of cutting down the length of the board. Between years XX and XX the short board and the beginnings of the modern surfing revolution had begun. Next came film. His first film “The Innermost Limits of Pure Fun”. Which beautifully captured the most innocent days of surfing. With an air mattress and 35mm camera strapped to his back came, for the first time ever, ground breaking footage from inside the barrel, again incredible work coming from the insides of Greenough’s mind. His inventiveness goes on, but what of Greenough now? Now living reclusively, George resides in his pyramid in the wilderness, rarely ventures into town, only for essentials. To talk to Greenough, you get the impression that he’d rather be else where, uneasy in today’s modern society, George rarely talks off the past, or even future, he’s to caught up in now, and his next project. You can see by his unkempt clothes, straight-fringed hair and feet that have rarely seen shoes, that the world George belongs to is far different from today’s modern society. Clearly saddened by friend Nat Young’s surf violence incident, it just another reason for him to stay in his world, and not ours. To see George in his element in the ocean, any reservations about any of his eccentricities are soon forgotten. He can be regularly be found out at his beloved Broken Head, on his surf mat, amongst the swells and ocean currents with his 35mm movie camera and his friends the dolphins. For his next film, “Dolphin Glide” will be a window into his world " imagine gliding through water with the resistance of gliding though air, imagine being a dolphin" he says. Its been five years in the making, of what is said to be a film that will permanently shatter current conception of wave riding. Though George is in no rush, he’s still waiting for clear water during swell, it could be out this year, or maybe another five years. As for George it’s not about the final film, but the journey of making it. For those who haven’t heard of George Greenough until now, enjoy finding out more than these words can communicate. The film Crystal Voyager will be a good starting point." Also check out Dolphin Glide…

Went to the source- thanks Matt

Re: go to the source Hardcore. Longtime committed. Then, now, forever: Mr. Ranch. Underground George Greenough witness-confidant. Greenough fin/ spoon/ hull/ edge board/ sailboard connoisseur. Source for prime hook-ups and historical truth. Defender Of The Most Holy. Seek and ye shall find: Charlie Coffee.

I went to the source. He does it all: sings, acts and even dances while he shapes. I cant believe Ive finally found him! I still can`t believe a man this perfect is real! Thank you Spencer Kellogg, Matt Miller and Swaylocks! Luv you all! Goodbye for now. Au revoir!

Teddy, The tail block is 11.5 inches wide. The tail (up 1 foot from the tail block) is 15.5 inches.