installing plugs into an oiled, chambered wooden board without epoxy?

General Discussion
1

Hi all, 

I’m new here but have been using this resource for a bit (super helpful)! I’m about to build a chambered paulownia board that I really would rather not use glass or resin on. 

i’m happy with most of the process but i’m not sure what adhesive and sealant to use when installing my fin plugs (just adhesive as the hole wont go through to the chamber) and more specifically a vent plug (what one do you recommend)? When installing the vent plug i’ll use epoxy putty i assume as that seems to be the norm but if i’m only oiling (or something similar) the board then how will i create a proper seal around the vent plug without using epoxy?

I hope this makes sense and that someone might have a tip or two for me.

While i’m here does anyone have any suggestions for wood glue to use (Titebond 3?) or any other tips for anything chambered board related? 

Thanks so much, 

Joe 

2

My first and only hollow wood board, Titebond 3 and spar varnish, was a fail. 13 feet nine inches of leakage.

There are a few ‘real’ HWB guys here who may coach you differently.

Personally I think a good layer of cloth and epoxy adds longevitiy and increases watertightness.

I have seen good results with sailboats and parts done this way. I have yet to fix the aforementioned ‘leaker’.

 

3

 

 

I get the desire to not use glass or epoxy, but simply relying on oil, which might actually eat and degrade the wood glue, could mean a lot of wasted effort, and a water damaged non functional wall hanger.

 

I don’t even use wood glue, Epoxy at each and every stage, glassed inside and out, with extra internal supports and glass wherever my feet go.

 

I bought a bunch of thumbscrew vents from fiberglass supply.

http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/Product_Catalog/SurfSailcom/surfsailcom.html

R62-5150

 

They don’t show the picture of the vent with the thumbscrew, only with the slotscrew which has the partnumber of r62-5088.

 

I’ve no experience with other vents, or goretex vents, so will offer no opinion.

 

I use epoxy and fiberglass, sometimes carbon to reinforce it on the interior, before adding the deck panels, I’ve not done chambered build, hollow only.

I’m modified some 1/4-20 brass inserts for use as a rear vent, in order for cross ventilation in the inevitable event of water entry but have only opened it once in 3 years, and then only to make sure the thead locking compound( vibratite v3) would release it. It did.

With no experience chambering, or using only wood glue or trying to set fin boxes without using epoxy or PE resin, I’ve got no ideas what to use in order to accomplish your desires. 

My opinion is that it is the wrong path, and doomed to have structural issues and water entry.

 

I have made wood fins and used oil on them only.  They required removal after each surf and reoiling, and the one larger fin broke on a top turn.  I rebuilt it using epoxy and fiberglass.  It would have been a lot less work to have just glassed it initially.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4

Thank you both for your replies! 

They are much appreciated and i will reconsider my decision to not use glass or resin but i know that there are a number of chambered board builders out there who use varnishes/oils/mixes of wax and oils etc. 

I will continue to research and see what i can find on the topic. 

Thank you 

5

Let us know what you decide, and show some pics.

 

A while back  I was considering the same, and when it came to the fin plugs I decided a deep hardwood mortice and fin tenon glued into the soft cedar, would be what I would use instead of any fin system.

  That was still before the one board I made, that was glassed on the interior and rails only, took on water and some interior balsa end grain ‘stomp strips’, turned to mush.  Then my oiled hardwood fin experiments largely failed, and I decided that epoxy and fiberglass do not encompass the mother of all things evil regarding wood surfboards and my thoughts returned how to make it stronger and lighter and more durable instead of an outward appearance of more environmentally friendly.

 

Especially when I read the ingredient list of the Watco Teak Oil I had been using to oil the woods after each surf. I also got sick of the smell, and found surfwax would not bead up, much less stick, and some other deck traction method  would be required. 

I like wax and this  presurf ritual, so that was another factor.

 

Anyway, post up some pics in a build thread when you get a chance.

6

Take this advise with a grain of salt. I have no chambered experience only HWS experience. I do have decent woodworking experience though. What I always recommend for any glue joint that will regularly see water is titebond 3. Its mostly good with oils also. I use it for end grain cutting boards that get dunked in mineral oil for a day or so. The biggest issue I’ve had is joint tightness. I’ve been doing HWS for the past 8 years and I still don’t think I could build a board out of wood and have all the joints be completely watertight with just glue. I would suggest you take a long hard look at your board and decide if all that work is really worth risking on something that may not be watertight. The worst feeling in the world is taking your board out for the maiden voyage and hearing sloshing sounds when you take it out of the water. To me its worth the effort and cost of 4 oz glass and resin after having 2 boards not be watertight.

All that being said, I know in the old days when tree2sea was still a thing people often used lanolin oil to seal their boards. Again

7

I have build about 10 wooden surfboards, thereoff 1 regularily chamberd (with usuall vertical sections) and one horizontally chambered…

… and I got all kinds of possible water intakes: I forgot to close valves two times, I faced an unrecognised transportation damage, I have seen water dripping out of micropores in an epoxy coat. I made tests with lanolin, which does not keep the wood from taking some water and oils.

If you are going with oil and/or lanolin, your wood will still take some water, make a test block, weigh it after your treatment and get it into water, after some hours, the weight will have increased by some percent (usually at least ten %).

As long as it goes into the wood and dries out after it, its ok, but I faced stressed gluelines too and if you have an real water intake, the trouble starts…

Because of those negative experiences, I do everything possible to avoid any kind of possible water intakes; I do more or less the same as stated above:

If possible seal or glass the inside,

work as exactly as possible,

try to avoid visible gluelines, which indicate not 100% properly jointed edges,

use sufficient glass or cloth on the outside; (think of water tightness not mechanical needs, the cloth is the carriers for the sealing agent, like epoxy, like glass, or flax fibres, even cotton may work. (I have read about volan cloth sealed with at least 10 layers of tung oil too…, but I would not rely on a natural oil anymore)

Seal your glassed cloth with a hot coat.

And since the last builds I although apply a very final coat of polyurethane marine varnish… 

Since I forgot to close the valves, I tried goretex valves sucdcesfully. I can recommend them, because if installed properly and once tied, you should not have to worry anymore. Sun exposure, cool sheds, , drastically cooling down to cold water, no hazzle at all, the valves does it, Use the high airflow ones! Drain the vent area with fresh water after use.

Due to corona I could not go surfing this year, but my surftrip is planned for August. Since my board stayed for almost a year now, I will check the watertightness first in a pool, especially the vent; if there is a sign of leakage, I will will replace it. I do not know by now,if goretex valves may be destroyed by salt cristals on the long run. I will see…