Posted by another swaylokian, What do you guys think? In the early 1980s, Ben Lexcen transformed 12-metre yacht design, using science where others had relied on gut feel. A combination of his free-thinking design, high-tech tools and a great crew as well as loads of Alan Bond’s money tore the America’s Cup from the grasp of the New York Yacht Club for the first time in the race’s 132-year history. Six years later, Bond signed another designer, American naval architect Andy Dovell, now 45, to help with his bid for the 1992 cup challenge. Things unravelled for Bond, the bid came to nothing, but Dovell stayed, forming a design partnership with skipper Iain Murray and engineer Ian Burns. Their design roster, long and storied, includes 2001 Sydney-to-Hobart overall winner Bumblebee 5. Surfboard design has a lot in common with pre-Lexcen 12-metre yachts. Since World War II and the invention of foam and glass fibre, design breakthroughs have come from trial and error as well as some lateral thinking by surfers. But the last major innovation came two years before Australia II’s victory when Sydney board rider Simon Anderson refined a three-fin design and proved its worth in professional competition. Little has happened since. Six years ago, Bill McCausland, a director of Surf Hardware International, met Dovell through a skiff racing acquaintance. Surf Hardware makes the Fin Control System, a removable fin design used in an estimated 85% of all surfboards made around the world. Before the FCS, surfboard fins were mostly hacked from resin-impregnated glass fibre mats then foiled using an angle grinder before being permanently attached to the bottom of the board using more glass fibre and resin. A surfboard fin is basically a wing. On a modern three-fin “thruster”, the two outside fins are foiled on the outside and flat on the inside. This generates lift as the board moves along the wave, just like an aeroplane wing creates lift as it moves through the air. The centre fin is foiled both sides and acts as a rudder or stabiliser. Most riders don’t realise that the board’s hull, which they study obsessively, has less to do with critical surfing than the fins. After their initial meeting, Dovell and McCausland worked together on a friendly basis. The naval architect offered suggestions, and some were incorporated into the FCS roster. SHI then won $1m under the federal government’s research and development Start program, matching the company’s contribution dollar for dollar. A contract with Murray, Burns and Dovell was signed and goals put in place: better fins, better surfing, patentable intellectual property. This last factor is important because the original FCS patents won’t last forever. New IP is needed to ensure a consistent revenue stream. In the 1960s, NASA spent a lot of time and money categorising airfoil types. Dovell started out assuming that the basic surfboard architecture, the three fins and their toe angles, was OK. “We took the basic fin area, profile, depth and chord and made subtle modifications,” he says. The first modification simply took a NASA foil with a broad performance envelope and applied it to the fins. Accuracy is important, so McCausland had special moulds constructed. In tandem, efforts were underway at the Australian Maritime College’s cavitation tank in Tasmania to figure out how to mount a fin so that its performance could be studied under scientific conditions. Field trials were held, with surfers given test fins to surf blind. On the beach, judges objectively ranked the performance of the riders, who filled out questionnaires when they returned to shore. That was 12 months ago. Surfers are still testing new versions of Dovell’s designs, and more prototyping is underway. Some of the early discoveries, including the NASA foil, have already been applied to some of SHI’s existing fin product. But the real advances, Dovell says, are still to come. The next phase involves building an electronic surfboard to measure flex and drive while on the water. If it works, surfboard riding may never be the same again. http://www.geocities.com/wunderboyi/ninetysixpercent.html
An interesting essay T.E. By blind do you mean the surfers did not know their fin designs before and while “researching them?” Were the judges blind to what fin designs the surfers were using? That would add a bit more objectivity to the project. Of course, there is no such thing as objectively judging surfing performance. Mike
Statement 1: “Before the FCS, surfboard fins were mostly hacked from resin-impregnated glass fibre mats.” This would have one believe that before the people form Fin Control Systems came along surfboard fins really didn’t amount to much. Don’t believe it. This is self-indulgent bunk. Any body that knows anything about the history of surfing knows that fin box systems are a very important part of progress in surf-craft, but the idea that what came before them was done by hacks borders on being sacrilegious. Besides that ~ FCS, IMHO ain’t that hot anyway. Statement 2: “Most riders don’t realise that the board’s hull, which they study obsessively, has less to do with critical surfing than the fins. “ I make custom fins and have studied them and how they work for years. A well shaped board will surf quite effectively with several different fin set-ups on it and can be tuned with a variety of fins to a varying wave conditions. Some boards are very set-up specific and will only work well set-up in a limited way, i.e. Single, Twin, or Thruster. Some boards are dogs and it doesn’t matter what you put on them they would do much better as a submarine or wall mount. Board performance can be aided tremendously with fins but the shaper’s art ranks above the fin maker’s art in my book. So I disagree with #2 completely. So here what we have is more fat peguin guano, to bad you can’t use it to fertilize your petunias. Keep studying & Good Surfin’, Rich
Wunderboy, Fertilizer is right… Fin system history posted earlier: “tom@daumtooling.com – Thursday, 12 June 2003, at 5:58 p.m.Greg, Daum Tooling, inc. started O’Fish’l with Mel Ross. The concept was a more efficient production installation method. The original idea was to glue fins in, not removable. It was only after making the initial parts, that it became apparent, that you could have a removable system. FCS came along just after O’Fish’l. FCS had the advantage of ease of installation in many different bottom contours. Future is a spin off of O’Fish’l via Bill Stewart. Larry Block was the original FCS distributor in the U.S… Once it started kicking FCS pull the US market in house. Daum Tooling, inc. split and lost O’Fish’l and consequently, Red X was born.”
I didnt think you would be the fecal sort? I hope not!! The article is not mine but an editor of the Bulletin News paper in Sydney… I thought it captured some intersting points about mass market idiosyncracies. Is it possible your skills are up to building a prototype FP? Ill hold your hand if you need it? http://www.geocities.com/wunderboyi/ninetysixpercent.html
Dramatic improvements in 3 fin thruster design are not coming. You take a few hundred thousand experiment boards over 20 years, and realize your $1m may generate theoretical understanding, but it will not yield successful design if you only look at things already settled. An acquaintance of mine wrote a comprehensive theoretical description on spoked bicycle wheels. It did not lead to better products, although it did make it easy to predict why new products would not work. The design is fundamentally solid - improving it substantially would require something more than foiling tweaks. I think fins gotta move - that is the next big thing in fin design. You’d be hard-pressed to find anyone who has thought about it and didn’t believe it possible that a moving fin could out-perform rigid fins. as for the fcs IP, it is essentially worthless already. They’re just gonna bang the drum with marketing real loud and hope no one notices the half dozen technically superior fin systems out there. If they don’t move to a next generation plug they are dead. Actually, if Futures and Lokbox were as careful with their IP as RedX (they may be - I dunno), FCS is already a lame duck. http://www.blakestah.com/fins/
How many out lets do you have? When you get to 400 youll be half as big as FCS…They sell average gear but have a high presence… http://www.geocities.com/wunderboyi/ninetysixpercent.html
T.E. Fecal? Yep that’s me. I’m a plumber. Keep trying to sell your FP here and you’ll find yourself down at the bottom of everyone’s list with other excrement. If you want to run an add go for it but consider that this part of the forum is segregated for design discussion. Take this personal if you like. Frankly I don’t care. You posted the article and asked for comments and that’s what you got. There are some noteworthy parallels drawn in the article but the premises it is written on betray it’s intent to this reader. It’s conclusion that that alludes to the notion that surfboard riding may never be the same again is pure hype. Succinctly said, I reserve my right to keep guano separate from feathers forever. Holding a plane right is real important to shaping a board. Spelling is just as important if one plans on writing something worth my consideration. The article falls short of the mark in this respect as well. Don’t break you arm trying to help me. I’ll manage fine with someone else’s help with some real experience. The FP world is too small for me. Ride what you like but don’t tout it as some kind of nirvana that’s better than everything else. I think I can safely say that we Swaylockians have other fish to fry. When someone shows up in Santa Cruz on a FP and proves that it’ll handle Sharks or Mitchell’s Cove when it’s 6 to 8 feet then I’ll consider the claims. Until then I’ll ride my Natural Curves flyer or my Freeline speed platter. Rasberries! Good Surfin, Rich
Build a FP and debunk it, simple as that. Your local shaper could do it! Im impressed with the active forum moderation squad…tell me my truths or go away? And make sure you spell correctly? Im still looking for that in the agreement to participate in disscusions… Although most of you guys are quite open minded or lack the confidence to speak in case the moderation squad banter them down… Please be my guest find nirvana with me… Build a board test it write about your feedback here and Ill give you my feedback I guarantee you will experience a different ride… and I wunt held it against anyone whos`s spelling is of a lessering degree that is alloweded by the modreation squad. http://www.geocities.com/wunderboyi/ninetysixpercent.html 
Hi T.E. You still have not answered my question about the “blind” studies by surfers and “objective” evaluation by surfers and judges. It sounds like more anecdotes to me and not science. Mike
Round an Round an Round we go.Fin Design…Bull!I lay odds ten to one they still look like the Dorsal Fin of a fish.Same old stuff.Maybe they should put scales on em just like a fish.Now that would be a Promo Gimmick.
or fish slime as well …surely its chemical as well not just mechanical??? revolutionary breakthrough in fin and board design …covering with fish slime for speed… NEWS FLASH surfers all over the world mysteriously attacked by sharks after using new speed enhancing product… sorry guys you know how one thought leads to another. regards BERT
sorry guys i didnt start this thread from the top before …they spent a million dollars ??? and still have crap that i wouldnt put in my boards …i customise all my fins and i know it takes longer and i could build more boards if i used a fin system …but until someone comes up with decent foils in a solid system …i will continue to make my own… regards BERT
Halcyon, Blakestah and all…well said!
T.E. You little violin plays the same sour note every time ~ Do it for me, Do it for me, Do it for me. Your words: “Build a board test it write about your feedback here and Ill give you my feedback I guarantee you will experience a different ride…” Around here it’s up to you to do it so get busy bub! Go pound that FP and see if you get off. Gone Surfin’, Rich P.S. At present I have lots of different rides. One won’t suffice unless she loves me.
T.E. was posting as T. Emmerton this last summer. promoting the Fat Penguin with the style of an 11 year old kid, and a stupid website with one picture of the FP and would state that he designed the F.P, with no mention of Peter Cole. It seems he’s back, this time with more material on that site, sounds more adult like, except this time he’s laying it on with a trowel. I think he should be ignored or called on his BS, like I’m doing now. So that this troll will go away.
Firstly you all are not reading very well, or some of you read with one eye closed… The article was not written by me nor does it have my endorsement Im amused to see the knee jerking for a statement that renders conventional design redunant. Its no problem to me guys what you say and how, just gives me more insight to the reasons why people are afraid of change. PAUL COLE is a very close friend of mine who has no problem with my disclosure of FP plans and information. And now you will suffer because Im telling his son you think his dads board is shite, mercy on you guys…hes 15 yrs 6’7" 91 kg and has a computer…oh boy youre in for it !!! Ive been told to leave and been told to get some facts or go away, but the truth is, where are the facts to say any one of the boards built by any shapers have any merit at all…as far as Im concerned conventional boards are slow and predictable useless pieces of MDI /TDI foam fibre glass… You guys may think your “Spitfires” are cutting edge but in todays skys we have very fast jets, that would have never been discovered by any of the dubunkers of FP… In life two things are constant… change and debunkers… Watch out for Pauls lad hes the itchyest to see our success and has been a bystander for the past years watching the evolution of FP, tell him its a flop!! His reaction wont surprise me ! http://www.geocities.com/wunderboyi/ninetysixpercent.html
Regardless of who or what your are or who you know, you sound like a child trolling, and are doing no one, least of all Paul Cole, a favor.
I disagree, For every one of the debunkers posts there are two emails in my hotmail inbox saying where can I get one…These boards arent a where can I get it type of board… about 5 guys I know of have taken on the challenge just to build one…they are honest with their feedback and dont scare easily when asked why they would think of building a FP… We did at one stage embark on exporting single handbuilt 6’ boards for AU$1300 to our surprise we sold more of them here in Australia (3) and one to SoCal. It cost the business AU$7500 in material and overheads to open for 12 months sold 4 boards at AU$1300 each = AU$5200 2 more boards we would have made profit in the first 12 months off 6 boards. Of course this excludes our wages which were the rewards of being there… And it was about this time Channell 9 turned up on our doorstep and did an impromtu interview (I have it recorded). At times this all may sound like broken english only because we are so grass roots we can hear the worms crawling. 2 guys 1 computer and a dream…using free web space and email account I will inform the world… You all ask why arent you selling boards now? We were in the prime of business just before “Twin Towers Sept 11” in fact I have a shipping note for the board that went to SoCal dated sept 8…well you can imagine the poor guy in SoCal, the country has taken a massive attack, hes worried for people his family hes literaly in shock the poor guy, and paid in total US$800 for a board that he doesnt even know if it works or not! It got stuck in customs for 3 weeks…I kept contact with him and he finnaly got his ride, and loved it ! Later the same year about X-mass the premises we had used to work out of was sold, we regathered and are now still able to do the odd board for very $enthusiastic$ customers but have gone a different track with making the general surf pop know a new boards in town ! As you can see Im not hiding my head in shame and dodging lawyers… There are over 20 mill surfers ww, over the entire life of the project we would conservatively had made half a million people semi concious of the probability of a new design…only a small percentage of these folk would have had actuall experience with one in person. You the masses demand the information you have and how its given to you…Im not playing ball and that annoys you… If your inner child is frustrated take them surfing and buy them an Icecream… http://www.geocities.com/wunderboyi/ninetysixpercent.html
Heres an example of the fire taking off with some wind… http://www.fluidgroove.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?s=8eb1f740bca0bd71e49b5d55a625a2ad;act=ST;f=12;t=21 That URL will take you to Fluidgroove board room where a thread was started by an individual who was inspired to have one built. The guys who are testing have had resevations about posting their feedback in the fear they may not do the FP justice…I calmed them with the aspect that the problems they were having were similar to the ones every body has with the first few surfs. The number one problem riders have is turing the board, when the correct foot positioning is assumed turning the board is as easy as turning your head, in fact the guys used to riding thrusters try to turn the board with their feet FP dont work this way. You find the sweet spot and weight shift and these boards will read your minds. Riding a FP is similar to riding a snow board. I get around, yeah I get around,… I get around ohoooooooooooh I get around. http://www.geocities.com/wunderboyi/ninetysixpercent.html